Asian Junkie Asian pop. Without discretion.
So Billboard recently came out with an article on SNSD, proclaiming that they were dominating Japan and were on their way to global domination and shit.
That sort of fluff is nothing new, so I don’t mean to single Billboard or SNSD out, but it did make me wonder exactly why American publications like this go to such great lengths to hype up certain K-pop groups.
Girls’ Generation continues their path to global domination with a new Japanese single and a new chart accomplishment. The group, whom appears as Shojo Jidal on Japanese charts, rocketed to the No. 1 spot last week on the Japan Hot 100 with their high-energy Japanese track “Paparazzi” with sales now at 103,000, according to SoundScan Japan.
“Global domination”, yet they lose to KAT-TUN minus Jin Akanishi by 60k on the Oricon weekly?
I mean … what?
Barring a late surge or extraordinary staying power, it will be their worst selling single in Japan to date.
Girls’ Generation latest chart accomplishment truly solidifies their leading of the K-pop girl group pack in Japan. Other popular groups like Kara, 2NE1, and After School have made attempts to break the lucrative industry to varying degrees of success.
lol no
Putting Kara in the same category as those flops is offensive as fuck (to both their fans and reason), as is referring to them as if they’re secondary to SNSD. Kara have either equaled or outperformed SNSD in physical sales, in digital sales, and even shit like radio play/radio requests.
I’ve said this before, but sales aside, Kara have more credibility with the Japanese public due to their apparent dedication to language skills and promotions there.
With the additional 103,000 for “Paparazzi” Girls’ Generation’s total singles/download sales now stand at 645,000 (with their best selling track being “Gee” at 207,000) according to SoundScan Japan. The group’s total album sales in Japan recently broke the million mark currently at 1,081,000 with the “Girl’s Generation” record accounting for 715,000 of those sales.
Using those types of calculations, Kara has sold 2.6 million “albums” in Japan though.
The super-popular Wonder Girls have announced plans to infiltrate Japan this year. While they just released their latest English single with Akon, the quintet group could pose stiff competition. For now, though, Girls’ Generation can enjoy life at the top.
Ah, the Wonder Girls are mentioned as well … and they just happen to be promoting overseas! Amazing!
—–
Maybe I’ll explore this further later on, but I’ve often wondered whether Billboard and other American sites push K-pop because:
1) They were paid to do so.
2) They are using the international K-pop fandom to generate traffic.
I don’t say this just for the sake of bringing negativity, but it’s hard to believe that K-pop suddenly becomes relevant to American publications whenever certain groups release American tracks. Yet, apart from that, they are generally out of sight, out of mind.
—–
As you can see in the Billboard article, it generally goes far beyond just covering them, they actively hype groups up to the point of being misleading and incorrect.
All I’m saying is that it’s odd that Kara, TVXQ, JYJ, and others are rarely mentioned in these world domination hype articles, yet they all have a more legitimate claim to the throne in Japan (Kara) or international fandoms (TVXQ/JYJ) than SNSD/Wonder Girls/2NE1. At the end of the day though, the former trio aren’t mentioned in America as much as the latter three because none of the former are trying the American market at the moment.
Are we supposed to believe it’s coincidence that this fluff reporting tends to highlight the Wonder Girls, SNSD, and 2NE1 even if SNSD is not taking over Japan, 2NE1 is irrelevant in Japan and will.i.am sucks, and the Wonder Girls just lost to fucking f(x) in Korea? I mean come on, just admit that it’s not about who rules K-pop in Japan or even Korea, it’s just about either whichever company is paying the most or whatever name brand groups will forward the most traffic to your site.
While there’s no evidence to suggest people are being paid off, knowing how Asian companies work, it’s certainly not unrealistic to speculate on that, and at the very minimum there’s some quid pro quo shit going on. Sorry, guess I’m just not naive enough to believe fluff articles form out of thin air and out the goodness of the hearts of music writers.
Soo Man throwing his weight around
Probably something along those lines.
I think Lee Soo Man isn’t CEO of SME anymore. I’m not certain but I remember reading an article somewhere.
He’s not, doesn’t mean he has nothing to do with SME anymore though.
yea, he’s not been the CEO for a very long time, cuz any smart business owner would get someone else to run the business for him/her once the company is sufficiently established. But I’m pretty sure he’s at least in the board of directors or a major shareholder, basically any position that gives him power and control over the company without doing much work so he can still throw his weight around when he feels like it.
He is the chairman of the board of directors.
In other words…he can fire the CEO is he wants.
People always try to act like he has nothing to do with SME anymore..when he is all over it.
It doesn’t matter what Billboard or Sooman or what anyone does to hype SNSD up. Unless they change their music style drastically, they’re going to flop.
What would you recommend? It’s hard for them to adjust though because pop groups and dance synchronization are out of vogue in America, just generally speaking.
If they manage to bolster their vocals, maybe a Jason Mraz / Bruno Mars? Just singing together without any dancing. Actually, a couple songs from their Japanese album weren’t so bad, like time machine or let it rain (?). If they truly needed to dance, lady gaga type music isn’t that bad. I think.
I’ll probably change my mind later and I’m not qualified nor knowledgeable enough to make a good decision.
recommendation*
That basically makes like five of their members completely useless though.
:o
Korean entertaiment companies are blind. They can’t understand the segmented american market.
In other side, Europe always was more open to pop groups: The Saturdays, Sugarbabes, Spice Girls, Take That, The Wanted, Monrose, No Angels, Girls Aloud, Blestyashchie…
What’s 5 when you have 9.
S Club 7, motherfucker.
:o
Just two more thing… Backstreet Boys only succeed in US because they became big in Europe first.
However, vocal groups like Jodeci, Collor me Badd, The Cover Girls and Boys II Men had more acceptance in the market because the segmentation. It allows to the market have a comercial sucess even with a demografically located entertainment.
Anyways… It seems K-Pop wants to condense vocal+rap+pop in just one group (like SNSD or Big Bang) and sell as if it were “take 3 and pay just for one”.
Ok, i’m goind too far…
Just putting it out there… If you don’t know how to spell it, I suggest not using it.
What word?
Well, just a few things. Not really constrained to spelling but what bothered me overall. They “don’t”, while this I’m sure isn’t what you meant, of course companies have the capability to understand the market, just hire some analysts or something. “two more thing _s_” plural. “only succeed _ed_” past tense. “because _of_ the segmentation”. “com_m_ercial” forgot an m. “demogra_ph_ic” it’s a ph not an f. “and _market_ it” While it’s not really incorrect per se, I think this is much better. There’s more stuff, but I don’t feel like going into it.
Disclaimer: I have a lot of mistakes too, but you just have more than me.
PS. Can we please have better comment formatting on this site?
Thanks for the tips. I’m improving my english to write properly. Many portuguese words are similar in meaning and slightly different in spelling, so i get confused sometimes. And Google Translator sucks.
By the way, it’s Color me Badd, not Collor me Badd, just another mistake.
I wouldn’t be too critical of people who have English as their second language.
:o
They are usually on par with Americans.
Changing their musical style drastically has what made them flop in their own country and America.
“All I’m saying is that it’s odd that Kara, TVXQ, JYJ, and others are rarely mentioned in these world domination hype articles, yet they all have a more legitimate claim to the throne in Japan (Kara) or international fandoms (TVXQ/JYJ) than SNSD/Wonder Girls/2NE1.”
I couldn’t agree more with you about this issue. Sometimes I catch myself thinking why mainstream media have this kind of unwillingness involving everything about Kara. It’s very frustrating.
Because they aren’t viewed as talented and because their company is DSP Media.
IMO.
If the music industry were only for vocally talented singers, Madonna would be a failure. Just sayin’…
LOL true. But Madonna’s has business sense, so she’s always found a way for the magazines to print stuff about her. DSP is a mess, and everyone knows it. Nobody wants to get involved with that shit.
Dress You Up is my ish….don’t hate
I don’t hate that mummy, I mean… woman.
Yes, but that’s what they (Korea) want to promote.
Notice how SNSD is being marketed as a “serious” pop group now? Even though their popularity was made off dressing in cutesy outfits and going “GEE GEE GEE GEE BABY BABY BABY”?
Kara doesn’t bullshit and they still do that type of music.
It’s true that we don’t have a solid evidence that SM -or any other company- are paying them to hype up their groups but somethings are obvious…..beside it’s not like they’ve got anything to lose >>
As for Kara it’s not like they need to be hyped up or anything…Numbers say it all
The way I see it that they’re more relevant in Japan than Korea.
“Wonder Girls just lost to fucking f(x) in Korea?” <- That did shock me tbh…WG started losing their korean fans the moment they left to the US JYP managed to fuck them up
I cannot believe that I thought SNSD was actually doing that great in Japan. There are so many articles of their sales being higher than big Japanese stars- I actually believed the hype
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/images/smilies/fuknomx9.gif
So is the order like this:
1) Kara
2) tvxq/jyj
3) snsd
?
In terms of total sales:
1. BoA (7.3 million)
2. Tohoshinki (4.7 million)
3. KARA (2.1 million)
4. SNSD (1.5 million)
5. BIGBANG (460,000)
(Though those rough figures don’t include singles {or albums} like ANDROID, PAPARAZZI, Speed up / Girls Power.)
Lol at Big Bang at barely half a million. Poor VIPs, they are so delusional about their “Kings.”
I really thought BB had a sufficient amount of sales, but omg rofl.
Really? Big Bang hardly even takes the top spot, much less sells enough to end up on year-end charts and shit.
yeah for boa
:o Boa really made that much?
BoA’s like…more popular in japan than she is in Korea.
Her popularity is shit now but she used to be that new-new shit, son.
They are doing great, they just aren’t even the biggest K-pop act in Japan, much less taking it over.
Articles like this are probably just created to soothe the sore egos of kpop fans not located in Asia. They’re taking advantage of the fact that most fans don’t even bother at least getting to know the names of the actual big names in Japan. All they see is “Girl’s Generation” + “Billboard” + the word “domination” and they just go apeshit.
I know that 90,000 is a large number but it’s quite low for a group that is supposedly “dominating” Japan.
LOLs directed at all the Blackjacks who are under the delusion that 24K is not a bad number and that 2NE1 is a success in Japan.
Most Blackjacks seem to skip over the small detail of a Japan re-issue of the “2NE1″ mini album (released as a full album with tracks from “To Anyone”, I think, in Japan) being their actual debut album there. It sold like 3,000 copies. Definitely slaying.
Race plays a small roll..but blaming lack of success on race and Americans being racist…is a bullshit cop-out.
The American public is easy…if the song is good or has a catchy beat, and appealing to them in some way…it will be successful. Even if all you get is a one hit wonder.
Produce something they can dance to or that brings something different and fresh.. and you’re good. Kpop..no matter what fangirls thing…isn’t bring nothing new and fresh. They are just re-packaging American Pop/R&B/Dance and serving it as something new because Koreans are singing. It will be really hard for them to make it here with that. Maybe YG groups…with the sound they have…but even them is sketchy
It will never work because they are asian, or as an average american radio friendly person would say ”Japanese girls lmao crazy ass Japan” it’s foreign, even if they sing in english.
If I thought they all flop because of their race, I would say so, but I honestly don’t think that’s the main reason.
why is my reply in the wrong place? lol
And it’s certainly not for a lack of promotion. I must have seen the “Paparazzi” video playing in the Shibuya Scramble fifty times, and I’ve spotted billboards in other places. As everyone knows, they performed on Music Station, too. I guess we have to wait and see how well their next Japanese album does. But they can’t beat Kara there, and they’ll never succeed in the U.S. So what’s next? I honestly think Taetiseo was their strongest effort so far, which is funny since it’s a third of the group.
“BUT SOSHI BOND CANNOT BE JUST THREE!!!”
They’re still making a shitload in Japan, it’s not like their careers are over or anything.
lol
I’m well aware of that. And almost everyone I know here is in love with “Paparazzi”. I’m just wondering if their next Japanese album will match up to their first (which I thought was actually pretty good), if they’ll ever try anything like Taetiseo again, and how long they’ll try (in vain) to conquer the U.S.
is that shiina ringo u got there in your dp?? 8D
It is! She’s probably the artist I respect the most. An absolute genius.
What’s the point of it though? Other than making fans think their unnies are big in Japan, nobody outside of that group would even click on the article.
Because those fans probably power more traffic to those sites than their normal articles.
I know I don’t ever read those sites for news.
:o
It kind of reminds me of I-fans (mainly BJs) that think T-ara is irrelevant in Korea/Japan compared to 2NE1 and other groups.
DSP probably doesn’t care though, considering they’re still making millions with Kara. Why bother go back to Korea?
Their Japanese songs are better than the Korean ones tbh.
Along with other certain groups…
SNSD: Yes a thousand times yes. Those songs might have been purchased but were amazing.
T-ara: Meh, same/less.
2NE1: atrocious remakes autotuned even more. Their album was disgusting besides Scream.
KARA: hit or miss. Speed Up is literally painful to listen to. Usually their music isn’t so bad but that song was just horrible.
Agreed. I love SNSD’s “The Great Escape” and “you-aholic”, but Kara’s “Super Girl” album was mostly forgettable to me.
yeah i prefer tvxq and boa’s japanese songs way more
TVXQ’s “Keep Your Head Down” sounded terrible in Japanese though.
:o
original japanese songs
What? T-ara is selling better, aren’t they?
And yeah, I don’t see why Kara would go back. Might as well just stay like BoA did.
Yeah, they are. I was just saying how Ifans don’t think they are popular/selling/relevant since T-ara doesn’t usually have fluff articles (regarding Japan) if it’s not selcas.
Who reads Billboard?? I get my news from Yahoo and TMZ.. When SNSD appears on TMZ.. then they offically made it in the U.S
But they were on Letterman and nobody gave a damn, also I don’t know half of the people who’s on TMZ
LOL Beat ARMY48 and I’ll let you talk about how you’re dominating Japan XD They have 7 singles that reach 1 million and the last few 3, 4 singles reached 1 million on the first day or 2nd day.
And beside wasn’t SNSD 1 million album sales from RIAJ? RIAJ count shipping, not real sales.
He wasn’t counting RIAJ, he was adding up their releases, including singles, and saying that was a million.
Is 2.6 million for Kara a lot by Japanese standards? How much would a group have to sell to really be “dominating”? Since the J-market is multiple times bigger than the one in SK I’m sure it’s in the millions.
AKB make over $200 million USD last year
I’m guessing that’s the “dominating” standard.
I’m pretty sure Kara and all of other kpop groups are still behind people like Arashi or EXILE in Japan too.
AKB48? They’re an idol group for fapping instead of talent right? I don’t know much about jpop…
I don’t think the Japanese need idol groups to fap when they have so much JAV to watch.
A group just doesn’t dominate charts by just being fapmaterial, there’s more to them then showing skin.
Don’t put “talent” and “idol” in the same sentence please, it makes me giggle.
Arashi and Exile are other groups that also do really well in Japan. Their sales are just a bit under AKB48 and I don’t think they’re really used as fapping material…though I could be wrong lol.
If they’re just for fapping, they wouldn’t be selling so much since JAV and real gravure idols show more skin than them. They top digital chart as well so people like their music…whether is your taste or not.
Look up River and Beginner, especially Beginner original video, with the arm ripping decapitation shit. Music wise it’s pretty legit too and they done all kind of stuffs, even a song about suicide like Keibetsu. AKB got bunch of kid fans too. I always see them crying, and spazzing out whenever AKB visit the tsunami areas and perform free concerts for them. Even 7 yrs old know their dances.
Japanese idols are different. Their appeal lies more in their personas than their music, IMO.
I don’t even really consider them pop. Just … idol music.
And Mr. Children and the likes, yes.
Oh right forgot.
Those old guys can still sell 2 million albums in one week :’)
It’s a lot anywhere, sure.
Kara is one of the top pop acts in Japan, I think.
so how much does a kpop group have to sell in japan to indicate that they are relevant in the japanese music scene (like on kara or tvxq’s level)? and how low would their sales have to be to be considered “flops”?
Sales wise, I usually expect top 50 on whatever year-end chart you want to use.
It’s more complicated than that though, because what companies really want is market penetration and market saturation, because that leads to a sort of brand loyalty that allows them to sell well past their expiration date (Hamasaki Ayumi is a recent example, IMO).
I think it’s more like this: Give us a fluff piece on this Asian girl group we have on the label and we’ll give you access to one of our top tier artists also.
sm is trying way too hard even making korea belive that kpop is dominating france . hell no 99% of french people could care less about kpop. alll snsd got as reaction when they passed on our national television is being called plastic barbie. oh yes please kpop world domination. jrock is still more relevant over here , japanese culture in general is way more relevant. places where sm town held their concert even the most umpopular french artist fill it, and suju could not even sell out theat venue so yeah oppa & unnies world domination. but keep sending them to the west french media are heartless as fuck!
i agree, i live in France and no one knows about Kpop.
THIS
Talked with a guy in Brazil who is a K-pop fan but was annoyed how Korea was making it out like they rule South America.
Makes me wonder about the actual market viability.
funny thing why korea hype things so much even lying . laruku, miyavi, gackt, x japan all those jrockers have been touring europe for ages . all european countries not just playing in zenith de paris and making so much noise , but i have rarely heard japan exagerating things like korea.
I actually think this is a difference in culture in general- Koreans are quite invested in getting recognition in foreign countries, so the slightest sign of interest is perhaps blown out of proportion. I’m doubtful anyone really believes the hype about dominating France or South America or whatever, as much as the fact ANY traction at all in a non-Asian country is considered impressive. Therefore, the ‘success’ they’re referring to gets painted in rather broad strokes.
In comparison, Japanese people don’t really seem to give a shit about what other countries think of them. (Correct me if I’m wrong).
Kinda agree with 240films. I don’t get the impression that Japanese media companies wanna be popular worldwide. Those Jrockers/VKers are making their own music and they know that (esp through the anime scene) they have fans in the West.. and they’re not even trying to go out their way to make English songs/debut to impress and get bragging rights. Most of those VK groups aren’t even super sellers in Japan. There’s just a different tactic/reason when comparing Kpop idol groups performing in the West (and then hype it up) with J-rockers
Japanese companies are shortsighted and think everything will be okay if they just appeal to Japanese people.
You could apply this reasoning with european music too: german music, french music etc… They only sell in their countries and they don’t even try to go worldwide.
This is another attempt of SM trying to make believe that his artists got “it”.
I could care less about ranking sales, but I do get curious and I know who’s on top and who’s not.
Fans are always over-hyping the issue saying that certain groups chart the Korean tabloids when I’m just looking at them and think: “It’s to be expected. Unless an idol group is really talented to me, those groups will always be in the charts because they’re mostly told so.”
That’s my opinion.
Even if they do get a great amount of physical sales, idols charting is old news.
True
THIS.
It seems like fandoms are gangs these days. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKEXoDLG-Z8
Everything he said is fucking true. Gangs everywhere.
Quite obvious this is a deploy to bring more traffic to Billboard Korea. And I believe Sistar is #1 at the moment. I don’t think the Korean Billboards isn’t making much of a splash compare to GAON and the many of others.
But their fixation for wonder girls, snsd and 2ne1 comes with the politics of doing business. Sure you and I would challenge their article. But to the majority no they wouldn’t or care to.
Girls’ generation did well with their last album selling 500,000 units with their last album. Both SNSD and Kara have reached platinum status in Japan. Also “the boys” maxi single rank higher than wonder girls in the u.s. BUT it hasn’t appeared on the year end. Which will determine if that single was worth anything. Also SNSD has made 3.5 million so far this year. I have no idea what WG,Kara or 2ne1 made this year so far.
Wonder girls still is the first female kpop group to debut state side. And still is the first to chart billboards year end charts with “nobody.” Also they were the first to perform on national television in the u.s. they just never conquer japan nor china despite single efforts.
2ne1 dominated digital charts in korea and even in year end charts. Still placing in the top 20. Outside of that they fail. Japan has the lowest physical sales for this band. Some 7,000 units which is below even minor kpop bands ability to sale. In the u.s they have charted on itunes but its usually last for 3 or 5 days. Its very short live and because itunes doesn’t disclose unites dowloads. I’m guessing its around 7,000 downloads like in japan. Its not very high.
But all I’ve stated never get mention in those articles. If just hor air coming out of Billboards ass.
The Japanese stuff SNSD puts out is utter shit. If anyone should be succeeding in Japan, it’s Rainbow. They got their shit together. DSP obviously knows what it’s doing.
SNSD’s Japanese album was their best work to date, I thought.
Their japanese stuff made them platinum with 500,000 units sold. With each unti ranging $12 to 60 man that’s Some serious cash. They achieve that status less than 6 months. On one mini album. It would take 3 and half korean albums to make the same but the smount would be less.
I’m looking at this straight money
The guy that wrote the article is a freelance writer that’s written for Billboard, Rolling Stone, Yahoo and (you’ll love this one) allkpop.
That explain this and the articles Rolling Stone have about Kpop (if he wrote those too)…..:O
His name is Jeff Benjamin. He doesn’t only write about KPop but, yes, the Rolling Stone articles were most likely written by him.
Ohhhhhh … I see now.
:o
Still find it funny that sones claim their angels are on top in Japan, beating out AKB48 and KARA—I was like “Son, get YO SHIT STRAIGHT! WHEW!” AKB48–bitches are untouchable in Japan.
Surprises me that AKB48 are actually growing in popularity.
Figured they would start to fade at some point.
I only knew about AKB48 a half year ago when people started subbing their shows. I wasn’t enthusiastic at first because of them being an “idol group” but then I gave their variety tv shows a shot and loved them since. Honestly, without the Japanese subbers(thank god there’s some left) I wouldn’t have even bothered looking them up. Guess the rise of subbers contribute greatly to their international fans.
What surprises me the most however are K-pop fans applying Korean idol ideology to Japanese idols. It’s like when they hear the words “idol” they automatically think of good looking people and catchy music. Not sure if it’s just me but when I hear “idol” I think of goofy tv personals that can spark my interest and make me laugh, not some group that only does music.
THIS.
I actually only like idols for their variety shows talent, not for their orgasmic body gyrating moves and “music”.
Then again, there are some exceptions (Han Geng, in my opinion, he’s got it all).
Well when I hear ‘idol’ that’s being used to refer to Japanese/Korean celebs, it’s about someone who isn’t that extraordinary in the music/dancing they do, but have a personality & look that people still like. Now there may be a difference in ‘the look’ between Japan/Korea, but still nonetheless is their selling point. (many of those Johnnys? Pretty boy faces just not the same pretty-boy face qualities like some of the effeminate Kpop idol dudes even though some of them can almost pass as VK guys)
When I think of idol in the West, it’s pretty much any celeb someone can look up to/influential and it’s not just someone who sings/dances. That’s just me and how I see this term being used in different places.
I’m waiting for the day that S.M. will debut porn idols.
Same here! They should start off with Taemin, though. I am sure that would be great fap material for women and men!
I’m not sure why everyone is still so obsessed over the Oricon singles charts. In my opinion, it has become less and less relevant nowadays. In Japan, where digital units can be 10 times more than physical units shifted, I think that charts such as Recochoku and the RIAJ Digital Tracks chart should be more important. The Oricon Singles charts have, aside from notably AKB48, been almost exclusively dominated by Johnny’s Entertainment groups who, for the most part don’t release digital versions. I don’t think its fair to say that SNSD isn’t dominating because they got second behind KATTUN, though I agree that SNSD aren’t the most popular. For example, Kana Nishino has never had an Oricon singles number one or had a single sell over 100,000 physical units, yet she has had 4 singles be number one on the digital charts for 3 weeks each, and has been certified Million. On the yearly charts for 2011, AKB48 took 3rd and 4th, SNSD took 7th and 10th, KARA 6th and 11th, while physically AKB48 took top five spots, DBSK at 16th (?) KARA was at 25/26th, and SNSD was much lower.
In my opinion, I think the Oricon album chart is probably the best for an overall look at the performance of each group. Albums tend to be far more consistent than singles, cost more, and the proportion of physical sales to digital sales is still high. In the 2011 chart, Arashi was first, AKB second, EXILE third, Lady Gaga 4th and SNSD 5th, while KARA was 7th and DBSK 20th. KARA’s album was released pretty late, so that skews things a bit, but I think that in general SNSD and KARA are both doing well. The differences between the two groups are really so small as to be irrelevant in the long run. If you count total sales, KARA is going to be higher because they have been in Japan longer and have shorter intervals between releases, but it’s kind of like the Ayumi Hamasaki vs. Utada Hikaru debate, it doesn’t really matter much eitherway.
I think that if we narrow the artists who are dominating to only one or two, then its obviously Arashi and AKB48, with the latter group breaking records in a way not seen since Utada Hikaru around the turn of the millenium. But if you expand that group to a handful or around ten, then I think it would be safe to add SNSD and Kara. They did rank 5th and 4th respectively in Oricon’s 2011 total revenue chart (which only ranks physical units, I believe), so I think they are the top two Hallyu artists in Japan right now.
Uh … what?
You argue for digital sales over physical sales because you say physical singles aren’t indicative of anything, then you argue for physical albums as the go-to metric for popularity.
Why? If that’s the case, then why not include all digital influence? Or do you not do that because SNSD is ranked ninth in that?
The physical and digital thing has less to do with units moved and more to do with the audience.
It all means something and SNSD isn’t dominating shit, according to … everything.
I’m not saying that physical singles chart is irrelevant, I’m just saying that its not as relevant as it used to be. The things that AKB48 are doing to that chart is nothing short of a landmark moment in Jpop history, that is not in dispute. That said, if you look solely at physical singles charts, then you get a skewed look at popularity as artists such as Kana Nishino, Juju, even Utada Hikaru are now far more popular on the digital chart than the singles charts. Yes, its really about different audiences, but when in one format the units shifted are several times larger than the other format, I think its clear that the larger, more popular format is more relevant. In addition, foreign artists (non-Hallyu ones in particular) are often shafted on the physical singles charts because they rarely release them in Japan. If you look at that chart solely, it would appear as if Lady Gaga and Avril Lavigne were never relevant in Japan.
The thing about physical album chart being more relevant is really because there are still a lot more physical albums sold than digital albums sold. I wish for a chart that truly combines all formats into one figure, but not even Billboard Japan is good enough. They base their figures on Nielsen SoundScan which is less comprehensive than Oricon’s own figures, which is in turn less comprehensive than RIAJ’s certification surveys.
My point really is that its important to look across a variety of formats and charts to evaluate a group’s success in a given market, and that focusing solely on Oricon singles chart, which everybody seems to be doing, isn’t the best way to do so.
AKB48 is so beyond everybody else that the only real point of contention is what happens below them, that, to me, is the more interesting point. All in all, I think SNSD is doing insanely well, far better than anyone could have ever thought in 2009. To put this into perspective, SNSD (and KARA) sold more than any solo Jpop female artist in 2011.
So what are you arguing, exactly?
I did look across all formats. In fact, I said that in the article and in my reply to you.
Still, despite whatever you are trying to say, SNSD isn’t dominating anything and their popularity in Japan is overstated in this article. Both still true.
With the disproportion amount of promotion SNSD gets compared to Japanese artists, they really should be doing well, or else it just looks idiotic when they get hyped up, like basically every other K-pop group besides Kara and TVXQ.
Your link to KARA’s wikipedia discography page as a sign of their physical sales dominance is quite misleading. Yes, KARA has higher overall sales in everything possible than SNSD. But then, on a per release basis, SNSD does better than or around the level of KARA. SNSD has released far fewer singles and albums in Japan than KARA, not because they can’t sell in Japan, but because of other commitments. SNSD’s sole album was certified Million while KARA’s Super Girl has so far only be certified 3x platinum and Girls Talk 2x platinum.
Same thing with your link to recochoku. First off, the RIAJ Digital Tracks chart which I was talking about is more comprehensive then recochoku, which only charts listings on its own music services, while RIAJ tracks across all services. And on RIAJ, SNSD and KARA are neck-and-neck.
You also linked to an USEN request ranking for first half of 2012 when the only SNSD release was Paparazzi in late June, so I’m really not sure what your point was there.
What I’m trying to say is that although AKB48 is truly dominant, SNSD and KARA are the top non-Japanese artists in Japan and in the process have become far more successful than even domestic royalty such as Namie Amuro. It’s like saying Adele dominated 2011 but Rihanna, Coldplay and Katy still did very very well.
I’m not sure what kind of disproportionate amount of promotion they get compared to Jpop artists?? They appear on the same tv shows, the same magazines, the same everything in Japan. When you are talking globally, a Kpop based article is always going to focus on Kpop. Billboard has features a lot of different Kpop artists, including front-page features on JYJ and Wonder Girls.
SNSD aren’t really that hyped up, their actual performance is not that different from the media portrayals…
Right, the best you can do is put them neck and neck with Kara. That’s even if you discard the volume, which goes toward popularity and exposure. Even if you discard actual market saturation, which is basically the actual popularity that is so difficult to measure, they are equal at best.
So even after the scope is narrowed to a per release metric that benefits SNSD’s case, they are about even. So when this article discards Kara and others into lower tier groups with rookies like After School, why would you then ask what disproportionate amount of attention and promotion they get? And please, my post is about the global perspective, so it’s quite on topic. The whole point was that most of the stuff in this article is exaggeration and fluff … and it is.
Unless you are seriously trying to argue that SNSD is on their way to world domination, then I’ll just stop responding because I’m being trolled.
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Are fans so utterly delusional that they actually don’t think SNSD are hyped up beyond other artists? Shit, even Korea admits they do it. Read one of the last articles published on this site for evidence of that.
SNSD is hyped more than most other idols in their own country, much less overseas, so I’m not sure what road you’re going down here. They get prime placement on shows, music or otherwise. They get drama roles they otherwise wouldn’t deserve, and it goes on and on. Like I’m seriously confused by this line of questioning. It’s like saying EXO didn’t have an advantage over other rookie groups when it’s apparent to everybody that the budget/investment of their major company compared to others clearly created an unbalanced playing field.
SNSD/Kara and the likes get gigantic advantages over most other artists, on the level of the Johnny Entertainment boys and AKB48. They get those preferences because they’re in that idol genre and that’s how they sell their music. That’s why you don’t even see other extremely popular groups like EXILE get as much hype and exposure as those mentioned, because they’re not idols, technically.
The solo artists you mention? They hardly do shit. We just wrote an article about how Amuro Namie’s promotion basically consists of her doing nothing. Partying in foreign countries and her domestic promotion consisted of buses driving around. Compare that against any of these idol groups and it’s a completely different level. She doesn’t even bother going on television anymore, so her sales are based purely off her music and reputation. To me, that’s actual popularity, right? She can basically just sell music because her fans track what she’s doing and she has enough name recognition to just do whatever she wants.
Then there are the talented rookies and indie types who basically get shafted, and that’s not even mentioning Visual Kei and J-rock. How often do you see them in the media? Yet they still sell. Plus, most of the digital artists don’t promote either. Only popular digital artist I can think of in that Shibuya-style category that’s on television all the time is Nishino Kana. The rest are basically nowhere.
SNSD is on an even playing field with Kara, Arashi, AKB48, and the likes. Everybody else? Not even close.
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I would argue that in terms of market saturation and name recognition, SNSD isn’t yet anywhere near the same level as Koda Kumi/Amuro Namie/Hamasaki Ayumi, nor TVXQ/JYJ.
As such, I feel that this delusion being spread domestically and internationally that SNSD is taking over Japan is mockable.
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By the way, “Paparazzi” is second to Che’Nelle (where is her massive promotional campaign again?) on the RIAJ digital chart, so again, I don’t see any domination or takeover.
In fact, now that I look, SNSD hasn’t ever topped that chart, but Kara has. Is that too much to ask when people are claiming takeover?
Yes, this article does disproportionately cover SNSD rather than other groups that are just as deserving, but it is important to note that it isn’t necessarily lying, or exaggerating to the point of misinformation. While putting KARA in the same sentence in Afterschool is misleading, the author does indicate that they have varying degrees of popularity, which isn’t wrong.
Per-release metric is better at evaluating overall popularity simply because it better indicates how many people are willing to purchase a group’s products. There may be the same number of fans for KARA and SNSD, its just that KARA fan might by 3 singles while SNSD fan will buy 1 single. KARA selling three times the number of singles with three times the number of release does not indicate that they are more popular. It’s the same thing with the Ayumi Hamasaki vs. Utada Hikaru release scenario.
I seriously don’t quite know why you point out SNSD as operating on a field that is above indie artists. I totally agree with that argument, but I just don’t see the relevance. Like you said, these artists have significant support from all areas of the industry, but its nothing different than other artists that are at that level. SNSD are operating at that level, they are able to generate those sales. You say that they are given advantages that no other artists get, but have you considered why? Maybe its because people recognize that SNSD brings significant value to their company, that they bring in the viewers, that they bring in the sales. I am really confused by what you are trying to say. What I said is that in Japan, SNSD is not hyped more than any other Japanese artists of their level, they have more or less the same opportunities. It seems to me that you are saying SNSD has more opportunities than other indie groups, perhaps in the same way that Madonna has more opportunities than some random indie band? I don’t quite see what’s so special about that…
I’ve read RandomJ’s article on Namie Amuro, and you should also realize that Ayumi Hamasaki and Koda Kumi also do endless promotions, yet still have only a fraction of the sales that SNSD does. I know what RandomJ means about lack of tv performances, but Namie Amuro is on like every single magazine in Japan!! She also goes on tour every year, regularly releases singles, and every single time I walk into a bookstore I see a magazine with Namie Amuro and another magazine with Ayumi Hamasaki. Why don’t you consider how for the latter part of 2011, SNSD hardly did any promotion in Japan, but their album has been in the top 40 for a year? I’m also not sure why you don’t think EXILE gets any hype and promotion in Japan, because I see them on tv or in shops or in the metro or wherever every other day. To be honest, the only artist nowadays that really doesn’t do anything but still able to shift units is Utada Hikaru, but that’s another topic.
One point you raise is that you feel that SNSD “I would argue that in terms of market saturation and name recognition, SNSD isn’t yet anywhere near the same level as Koda Kumi/Amuro Namie/Hamasaki Ayumi, nor TVXQ/JYJ”. Absolutely, SNSD does not have the history of any of these artists but at this moment, SNSD can sell more in total than all of these artists in Japan except for Amuro Namie (waiting to see how Uncontrolled turns out), and I’m not exaggerating one bit. If you think that SNSD still hasn’t saturated the market, then perhaps there is even more room for them to grow.
Okay, Paparazzi is second to Che’Nelle. Congrats to Che’Nelle! Maybe you should take a look at how she does on the Oricon singles chart, then maybe you’ll understand what I mean.
I’m not going to argue semantics any further. If you can’t figure out what the writer was trying to do by shoving Kara and others off to the side, it’s beyond reasoning, IMO.
It’s interesting that you didn’t pick the “global domination” part to defend though. Wonder why?
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I point out that SNSD gets more attention because it’s relevant to sales. They deserve a certain amount of notoriety, sure. However, they have been promoted like a top group from the moment they got to Japan, which even the likes of Kara have had to actually earn.
K-pop in general gets more attention than their own groups. Why does After School get exponentially more promotion than Acid Black Cherry when the latter is easily the better seller? Because Japanese companies have duties and contracts to fill with Korean companies. Can you honestly not see how that works? Regardless of whether they are popular or not, they will get hyped.
Why do indie/hip-hop/r&b/rock take years before their company promotes them, even if they outsell pop groups, but SNSD and others get immediate promotion? Because they deserve it? Please, they pay for it.
When Avex and the likes develop their own talent, they aren’t being paid by BRIGHT and others to advertise or promote or distribute, so they don’t have to give them the same opportunities because there’s no incentive to. BRIGHT are there and under their thumb whether they like or not. K-pop groups are not.
This promotion issue is not a K-pop versus J-pop thing either. For me, it’s a K-pop & J-pop versus other artists getting shafted, because I actually am a fan of the other genres more.
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Hamasaki Ayumi and Koda Kumi haven’t done shit for promotion in like forever. I’m sure you know that. By the way, it’s quite different when AKB48 and Amuro Namie are on magazines in Japan. They boost magazine sales for the magazine company, not vice versa. If AKB48 released their gravure shots on their own site instead of Big Comic Spirits or whatever, you think their fans would care where it’s from? Quite different from actual company support to go out and market the group. Completely different, actually.
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Anyway, we’ll never know if SNSD can sell as much as Amuro Namie without gigantic billboards all over Shibuya and their music video playing everywhere, will we? No, because UMGJ will never take that risk until they are established for years. We already know Amuro can move 500k albums while getting shitfaced in Taiwan or whatever she’s doing now. That’s … uh … sort of my point.
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The point about Che’Nelle is that if SNSD were dominant, and you discard the Oricon Weekly Physical Singles Chart and prefer the RIAJ Weekly Digital Singles Chart, then even by that measurement they still aren’t dominating since they’re finishing second week after week to an artist who hardly promotes (I actually can never recall her promoting on television). My point here isn’t a ridiculous one, I’m simply saying they’re currently overhyped and overblown. I’m not sure how you intend on proving that they have lived up to their hype since they aren’t number one by any measure right now. Maybe later AKB48 will fade like all Japanese idol groups do from their graduations and what not, but right now? It’s a ridiculous claim to me and I still believe that.
Back to the point of the article, which has been lost in this clusterfuck, tell me why SNSD deserves to be hyped everywhere as taking over or dominating Japan.
If not, I think I’m done.
I have stuff to do. No offense.
What AKB48 is doing is what I would consider domination. They completely shut shit down when they release. It’s not even fucking close.
AKB48 would never lose by 60k on anything. I would be shocked if anybody got within 1/10th of their sales on a single release.
I don’t even think Arashi is that dominant anymore.
but doesn’t ARASHI sell more albums, DVD’s and get better ratings than AKB or something?
as far as I know JE and 48s run on different types of business modules.
They were right there with AKB48 in 2011, but I honestly don’t think that will be the case in 2012. Arashi’s latest release is their lowest selling since early 2010, but AKB48′s is their highest ever.
Just my opinion/observation.
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Yeah, Arashi does much better in the acting arena, but we’re talking about musical sales.
SNSD = most irrelevant kpop girl group for me. I find them extremely boring and only Yuri is kinda hot (but not even that hot when compared to other groups).
What’s all the hype about? I think I will never get it. Innocent my ass, I am sure they all suck Soo Mans dick at the same time.
Even though I like them quite a bit, I can understand how you feel. There are some songs of theirs that I really like, but in total, it’s just a fraction of their discography. The rest I find to be mediocre.
They work extremely hard, people fap to them, their music is catchy and they have nine members that can work in various areas, such as entertainment, dramas, movies, radio, fashion etc.
So it’s fair to say that contributed to their success, however the biggest stars die the quickest.
SNSD are already at their peak, they having nothing else to show as seen from their previous two singles (Hoot and The Boys)
IU has a serious chance of success in Japan. She has the image, voice and personality to make it big in Japan. She just needs to learn the language, promote herself through entertainment and make music that resonates her personality.
I also think most KPOP idols have a higher chance if they’re not known as “Korean pop idols” because that’s a big turn off for most Japanese people I believe.
I agree.
SM stans make this kind of memo on tumblr I wish I would take a picture of it; well, they make this post saying how every fan should buy 10+ albums of xxxx artist to reach x total of album sales. I bet stans of other companies might do this too, but these SM bitches are fucking insane, I mean they starve themselves to get enough money to buy lots albums just to brag later on akp, soompi, etc. how their bias are top sellers DAFUQ!!
When I was 12 I saved money to buy an Aerosmith album but then I took a liking (loving) on REM so couldn’t choose witch album buy so I buy none (free download ♥). I had to save money to buy ONE JUST ONE album and this bitches buys 10 of the same shitty album just because….
Idk if this has something to do with this article, just have to get that out of my system
Yea, i don’t get why you’d buy 10 of the same album even if you love the artist…just buy a poster of them instead of the same album, AGAIN.
seriously man, I don’t get money for shit so I have to save up on my own which leads to me only buying albums of artists I really like and then the album itself also has to be spectacular on its own.
smh.
These girls can’t sing. SNSD being famous in Japan shows that if you have looks you can make it. 2NE1 are more talented than the SNSDbitches yet aren’t famous over there in Japan. KARA are even worse than the SNSDbitches yet are famous too. Industries are so corrupt that it’s not even about the talent just the image/looks.
SPICA is more talented than all of them.
It’s never-ending if you go down that route. Humans will respond to attractive people. Life.
SPICA is effing badass, and I am desperately hoping for them to release more music, but it looks like they might disappear in this flood of new talentless idols. The low number of views on their music videos on YouTube isn’t exactly reassuring. I just hope I’m wrong.