
The inspiration for this post came from a recent article published on allkpop, written by a friend, Jeff Benjamin. If you haven’t already read it, here’s a quick summary:
NS Yoonji and G.NA are two female K-pop artists who have a shot of achieving mainstream success in the United States because:
- They speak English fluently.
- Their sex appeal would work with Western audiences.
- They’d be able to work with a number of genres.
I agree with many of his points. I think if NS Yoonji or G.NA were to debut tomorrow in the United States, with a song produced by Dr. Luke or RedOne or Stargate, I’m confident that they’d be able to grab part of the demographic that currently listens to Rihanna or Katy Perry, and maybe even land on the Billboard Hot 100 (and not just the Billboard K-Pop Chart).
But here’s the catch – not under a Korean record label.
Korean entertainment companies are notoriously bad at understanding the American market; the failed debuts of Rain, BoA, Se7en, Wonder Girls, and (dare I mention) JQT provide evidence enough of this.
The reason I wrote this is because Jeff’s article stopped tantalizingly short of a far more interesting question. Whether NS Yoonji or G.NA can use their sex appeal and English fluency to achieve mainstream success stateside is besides the point; the real debate that’s worth writing over a thousand comments about is, “Why can’t K-pop make it in the United States?/Is it enough to speak English to make it in the United States?”
—–
The answer, of course, is complex and multifaceted. It’s not as simple as “America only likes solo artists“, because if you’ve been listening to the radio recently in the States, One Direction, a British boyband, has scored two huge hits with “One Thing” and “What Makes You Beautiful“. And it’s not as simple as, “Americans don’t like Asian entertainers“, because there are good counterexamples - Steve Aoki is one of the leading faces of the EDM movement, and Far East Movement had a Billboard #1 single in 2010.
One important factor that does makes a difference, though, is the indisputable fact that K-pop is still very much a derivative genre that owes the majority of its trends (with some significant exceptions) to American pop.
Here’s a great example – the use of dubstep drops or breaks in K-pop. Dubstep first began to make its way into pop music in earnest last year in the States because musical acts wanted to jump on the “it trend” of the moment (dance music). Then, at the 2011 Gayo Daejun, we heard not one, but three special stages with dubstep drops, followed by a number of singles incorporating dubstep (the latest example being “Action“, by rookie group NU’EST). Why is this worth noting? Because dance music and dubstep is nowhere near as mainstream in Korea (forget Asia) as it is in the United States. This variety of trend-mimicry is a problem that I’ll explore later on in this piece.

The American music market is also incredibly competitive, and here’s the cold, hard, truth: with this amount of competition, talent becomes orthogonal to success (unless you’re a once-in-a-generation talent like Prince or Michael Jackson). No one in America wants to see a bunch of Asians get on stage and do a vocal cover of Beyonce or a rap cover of Eminem. Contrast that to the way Korean variety shows are styled, where idols are constantly given opportunities to show their vocal covers and their dance skills.
In America, talent is taken as a given (loosely defined). This quote from the New York Times does a good job summarizing these sentiments:
“And so it falls to Mr. Harrell not just to elicit sterling vocal performances, but also to preserve and highlight what’s distinctive about each voice: Ms. Lopez’s blend of husk and flirt, Rihanna’s petulant purr, Mr. Bieber’s sweet coo. ‘Rihanna, you hear two bars — Oh, my God, that’s Rihanna,’ Mr. Harrell said. ‘You can hear that tone in your head.’” (Source: New York Times; Pitched To Perfection: Pop’s Silent Partner)
What stood out to me was the last quote from Mr. Harrell – “…you hear two bars – Oh, my God, that’s Rihanna”. What this really says is that vocal talent is important, but what’s even more crucial is individuality, something unmistakably you.
But more often than not in Korea, it’s better to follow trends – to look like someone and do what’s popular – consider, for example, the amount of buzz companies and netizens drum up over celebrity doppelgangers, or the recent adoption of Jeremy Scott‘s collection for Adidas by almost every label.
That stuff just isn’t as important stateside.
As Kuk Harrell, one of the most sought-after vocal producers in the industry, noted in a video interview accompanying the same article, “I’m not looking for great pitch – I’m looking for passion. Listeners always identify with passion.” (New York Times).
—–
In that same article, we get an insight into what American record companies believe is the key to pop stardom and why they’re willing to shell out the millions that vocal producers like Kuk Harrell make a year.
“We want to enhance the artist’s authenticity,” said Chris Hicks, who was until recently executive vice president at Island Def Jam, home to Mr. Bieber, Ms. Lopez and Rihanna. “You buy a Bieber or Rihanna because you believe in them, and this is part of that.” (Source: New York Times; Pitched To Perfection: Pop’s Silent Partner)
Note that Mr. Hicks doesn’t talk about talent, or things that are quantifiable, or measurable. He talks about qualitative, subjective things. Mr. Hicks’ decision to highlight qualities like belief and authenticity — necessarily skipping over the opportunity to highlight the sweat and effort artists put into their music — in and of itself shows us the value hierarchy Mr. Hicks, and perhaps other American music executives, subscribes to.
Authenticity over training. Uniqueness over talent.

Does K-pop have the authenticity factor? It’s important because authenticity is a myth that Americans cling dearly to. It’s part of the reason Justin Bieber captures the popular imagination and why he might actually have the staying power to become his generation’s greatest star. He’s talented, but there are tons of other kids who have equal amounts, if not more talent. It’s more about the story that he told in his box-office hit, “Never Say Never” – raised by a single mother, discovered on YouTube, becoming an overnight sensation. It’s a Dickensian rags-to-riches narrative that perfectly molds to our desire for authenticity from our artists.
In the end, K-pop fails to tell the kind of story that American audiences can believe in. The idea of a trainee system, beginning with auditions and taking years and years of specialized vocal and dance classes, isn’t the kind of romantic story that listeners in the States want to hear. It’s not palatable, and it doesn’t sit well – isn’t it child abuse, one might wonder, to put someone through hours of practice like that?
—–
So we return to refine the question that’s worth debating. It shouldn’t be about, “Do you think this K-pop star has the talent, or the looks, or the English speaking ability to succeed in America?“, but rather, “Is this K-pop star different enough from everything else in the American market right now?” and/or “Does this K-pop star have the right story to sell to audiences?*”
*Hello, Psy.
What I’d like to humbly suggest to K-pop artists that seek to make it in the West is this: Stop copying Western trends. I can promise that Western audiences will not respect you for mimicking what’s already been done. The only way K-pop is going to stand out in America is to be different.
And here’s how you know you’ve really made it – when American labels are willing to invest money for your debut in the States.
Asian Junkie Asian pop. Without discretion.
Completely agree with everything you say. But I have to wonder about artists like Jason Derulo, Jay Sean, or Taio Cruz- artists who didn’t have the success of Justin Bieber or Rihanna, but were still successful nonetheless. They seemed to succeed by following the trends, not setting them.
I don’t know who the latter two are and I only know the former because I think he had a collab with AI.
If you ask the average tween/teen if they know who these guys are, they’ll say yes. And that’s the audience K-Pop should be aiming for.
I would also say that their race and background made it easier for them to follow because their type of music was the mold, not the exception for that image.
Jay Sean is South Asian, so that refutes your argument that the music fit the image of their race and background for all of them. Most teens/tween get the majority of their music through the radio, where you can’t see the artist. They will hear the songs over and over again, and become familiar with it. However, there is a general consensus that anything from Asia is weird, so trying to bring K-pop artist into that environment is harder than bringing a British artist. I agree with you on that.
Right and how does he look, exactly?
Not much different than your typical singer in the genre.
How does G.NA look comparatively?
He looks Indian, and G.Na looks Asian. Are you saying that the reason he was able to chart in America is because he didn’t look too foreign?
He really doesn’t look too Asian in pictures is my point.
You really don’t know Jay Sean or Taio Cruz?
I don’t listen to the radio, no.
I think there’s still room for following trends, but only mildly based on Jay Sean’s success. The trick is it has to be unforgettably catchy, in my mind, the style of Trouble Maker or Call Me Maybe. The problem, is both those songs were “innovative” in some way or form.
Down (Jay Sean’s US debut) just had the catchy hook, that got stuck in your head. Something that wouldn’t leave your head and after hearing one lyric, you could sing the entire song.
But he couldn’t keep the mainstream popularity. So I would argue that Kpop artists fluent in English could break in following the mold, but wouldn’t stay in the limelight.
Yeah, and I agree. There are a lot of different ways to approach the American music market. The only thing that is for sure will make any K-Pop act successful is:
1. Talent
2. Hard work
3. Randomly meeting the right people and making them like you
As for JQT they disbanded now 3 of the members are in a new group called S the one. They still plan on promoting in asia, Europe and North America.They’ll be touring with Kelly Rowland and Flo Rida (and more) . I have no high hopes for them. But I do like their song Die For Me.
One of their song sounds like a copy of Kesha’s blow
I agree with what you said
After Min Sun left JQT, I lost interest
Ahh I still feel bad for her replacement Jin kyoung she only promoted with them for a short time and they disbanded.
Min sun was great though.
I still say Bieber popularity is due to Usher. No one gave a sh*t about the kid until Usher mention him. Without his approval and backing, Bieber would still be on Youtube singing to his family members
Disagree. Usher put him in the spotlight and gave him a platform. The tweens took it from there.
I was about to say what IATFB said…
Usher only introduced him to the public but he can not control the hearts of the millions of little girls who fell in love with him.
Right.
JYP can have whoever push the Wonder Girls into the spotlight, but if the public doesn’t like them, then it won’t matter.
On the other hand, Psy can just post a video on YouTube and have it go viral because the public likes it.
Assists help, but it really comes down to the public accepting it to make it go mainstream.
Amen @ everything
if i were to name two people who would be able to succes in the US that’d be Junsu (xiah) and PSY. Ironically, they’re both soloists
i take Junsu ’cause he obviously gives a fuck. Like zero fucks. Something that kpop companies can’t seem to understand is that personality can’t be created or produced. It’s there or it isn’t
i don’t care how much Blackjacks insist on their “swag” shit; Junsu and PSY can stand on stage and make your hat fly of the awesomeness without a bird on their shoulders
OH YES YES JUNSU
you took the words out of my mouth
i want to lick your face right now
Except I think people would end up calling him the male lady gaga and not in a good way.
Also, he’d need to improve a bit more on his english.
But I could see him making it.
If he could speak English fluently, I would give him a shot.
I’m not sure about Xiah making it, even if he gets good at speaking English. I agree with iamtired: they’ll call him the male lady gaga, and prolly a copycat because of that.
mmm well that is if he keeps similar concepts as in “tarantallegra” but he’s constantly changing those, so i don’t think it’d be much of a problem; after all he always gave me the David Bowie feel more than anything
+1
The part where you mentioned that kpop idols are trained for years and don’t have a touching background story the audience can relate to…I agree and I also think that the Korean audience is starting to feel the same way (or maybe have always been).
I mean look at “Busker Busker” and John Park they’re not manufactured idols but they still somehow made it into the korean mainstream.
On the other hand I think korean indie artists might have a chance in the US if they only could speak english.
Yes, yes, and yes to everything on this.
Anyone seen Psy ft. Hyuna btw? Hyuna is getting a lot of shit. People saying she sounds annoying as shit, and others saying “IT’S AEGYO! SHE SUPPOSED TO SOUND LIKE THAT! IT’S CUTE IN KOREA!” Just a bunch of hot mess on the comment section.
Also they said it should be Dara instead of Hyuna singing in the song. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6f19bpxV71r1s7izo1_500.gif
…
she always sounds like shit though
and she always gets hate
how is this news?
It’s news because it’s happening now. Duh. lol But seriously, I’m just saying tho.
I find the people calling HyunA a whore much more annoying.
I thought everyone in Kpop was pure and innocent
i read that she was forcing an annoyingly cute voice because its supposed to be a parody of some of the people in Gangnam (like how the old rich dudes have annoyingly cutesy voiced barbie girlfriends). but anyways it is funny to see fans get so mad about this.
My personal take on Hyuna featuring in the song is that they are trying to making lightening strike twice. I think they shouldve left the song as one song instead of making another version. People for the most part of what ive seen don’t like the second version. I think PSY shouldve left it as is. Trying to get hype off the same song twice will kill it for people. I think that happened with Wonder Girls and their song Nobody as well.
I don’t know, some of the artists that make it big are of shit quality.
I mean, let’s be honest, rihanna is shitty as all fuck.
I think it’s more having connections or a unique personality to make it in the american buisness.
I don’t think you have to have talent.
HOWEVER, I do admit that if you do something that makes you stand out from the crowd/showcase an insane amount of talent you can still make it without either of the two things I stated above.
Personally, I also think Tasha, John Park, and Epik High could make it big if they wanted – and managed themselves correctly.
Miss A has a ~chance~ (but a slight one) because I actually find them to be unique/different than most girl groups and if I’m correct, Min is fluent in english, and she was originally supposed to debut in the US,
Rihanna is popular because nobody heard a voice with her tonality before, I think. As the article says. It stands out so it gets recognized. TONS can out-sing her, but they all sound the same.
Point taken.
The thing is Rihanna has a status, she puts out nasty yet enjoyable songs, and she has that IDGAF persona. That’s what people like. I also think Tasha and Epik High could be good here too.
If tasha made it I would cry tears of fucking joy that my ultimate bias might actually come to the chicago area and I would possibly have a chance to see her live.
I’ve been saying JYP should have tried with miss A ever since that silly WG movie came out.
& even if they can’t all speak English they can sing in English just fine. Why did JYP give them an English single, anyway?
I agree.
I’m not sure about suzy but Jia and Fei have pretty good english skills but they are nowhere near fluent/proficient yet.
Miss A is honestly JYP’s best group – wonder girls is shit compared to them, I don’t even GOSH MY FEEEEELLS
but then again I’m a Miss A stan so I’m biased.
Really biased.
You forgot Min. Her english is pretty good.
I mentioned in my first long comment that Min is already fluent in English.
Rhianna would sound the same getting her ass packed as she would singing…that’s her sales point imho.
Jennifer Lopez as an actress LOVE… As a SINGER… my ears are bleeding.. Ill never understand how that woman sold that many records . If Hyo Rin of Sister was solo and of course could speak english fluently she could make it. She has a rasp to her voice that would do well
Omg I thought I was the only one like J.Lo more of an actress than a singer. I like her older music, but she doesn’t really have a stand out voice to me. It’s…it’s mediocre.
She sucks and she knows it… the difference is she owns it and already had a big fan base before she came out with an album
J.lo is a bad actress (except for Enough she was good in that) and okay singer .
But I always thought that Sistar was holding Hyorin back. I feel like she could be more popular if she went solo. She doesn’t need the help of the other three.
I don’t think her acting isn’t that bad, but out of the two singing and acting, I’d see her more as an actress too. I did like her singing when she was in “Selena” tho. Even though Selena herself is better but I think JLo played her well.
*tho instead of too
I thought she well in the movie she did with George Clooney Out of Sight. I just rather see her on screen
I thought she did* well
I thought she was good in El Cantante.
I’ll still watch her music videos though because her body is bangin’.
Am I the only one who finds NS Yoonji boring/forgettable? ‘ 3 ‘
That’s the entire reason she’s not popular despite being gorgeous and fringe average to above average at everything (plenty to get by in K-pop).
I think HyunA is less talented, but she’s more relevant because she’s the opposite of boring.
Ah, OK.
I think everyone agrees about the Hyuna thing.
She is VERY forgettable. IATFB is right about Hyuna she is lacking in the talent department but she is charismatic and is a performer. It would be great if she had both like Beyonce but not everyone can be KING B.
ROIGHT, ROIGHT.
I don’t even like Bey, but you can’t deny that she’s a great performer.
Amen to everything you said.
easy answer: they don’t stand a chance :)
I think, if managed correctly, Ailee could a stand a chance to “break the market.” And maybeee Jay Park.
G.Na’s voice is painfully bad, NS Yoonji is alright. Both don’t have what it takes to make it in the US though.
And I completely agree with the “don’t mimic the west” point. 2NE1′s most “swag” songs and music videos only got laughed by non-kpoppers I’ve shown, with comments like “they’re trying too hard to be gangsters. SNSD got complaints about the amount of “dancers” versus “talent” in the group. These groups try too hard, and not in the right areas
And I agree with the comment about the training days. That only pisses people off. The fact that you can take someone with no talent off the streets, “train” them for most of their lives, give them fake personalities and at times, fake faces, only makes them replaceable and not worthy of being called as talented as other people that were born with the same skills.
The fact that PSY stays away from this ^ is what will make him more likely to make it into America. Seeing how he got that call from JB’s agency shows he’s already on his way.
And I think that Ailee, Hyorin (English lessons needed), Tasha, and Epik High would be able to make it. I’m not sure about 2NE1, and I don’t think that YG is either since he doesn’t really seem to being going forward with the whole English album thing
AKP said that Nelly Furtado wants to collab with T.O.P. (have a strange feeling that she been asked or payed to collab with him) I wonder how is that gonna work. Is she gonna be singing in English or Spanish, and he just pops from nowhere rapping in Korean? What a song that’ll be…
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq6xhvKKXJ1qcgasj.gif
if it’s like that pixie lott thing, than i’m fine (i kinda liked that song), but i’m afraid that it would be horrrrrible. and she was prolly asked to say that
well T.O.P has an OK grasp on english and he can actually rap in it/do covers so I mean, he’d probably rap in english.
lol what the motherfucking fuck
i’ll applaud them if they actually make it sound not-awful
Ailee was already popular among the youtube community (well, relatively popular, not vlogbrothers or philip defranco popular, but close) so she would definitely have a good fan base.
Hyorin is basically the korean beyonce, if she works on her english she would be praised forever and ever.
Agree about Tasha and Epik High too except I don’t think either of them care enough so it won’t happen unless something of theirs goes viral like with Psy.
2ne1 has a chance if they stop acting too try hard and make CL stop rapping. (and also, give more lines to minji and less to dara and bom)
I agree with most of what was said here. However, there are many “artists” in America that don’t really have uniqueness. Flo-Rida and Pitbull seem to copy trends and get more popular with every shitty song they release. And I don’t really think people notice or care about Rihanna’s tone that much. She has an album out every year and they seem to get dirtier and more raunchy. That’s what people like about her.
Maybe I don’t keep up with the typical mainstream American music fan, but Flo Rida completely lost relevance to the people I know after “Right Round” was released, and all I see are people mocking Pitbull for his commercials and repetitive “let’s have a real good time” lyrics.
Also worth noting is that despite their lack of talent, they have more credibility as an artist than anybody in K-pop.
Like she says, that whole street cred shit plays big here.
I’m from florida and everyone was supporting him. Until “right around” came out. Than Rick Ross “hustle” came out that shut shit down. Pitbull is still popular here for club goers. Hip hop in florida is quite strong with its local music scene like Atlanta. You make it big that is great but him you home state doesn’t back up doesn’t mean shit at the end.
I’m tired of these k-pop people thinking just because an idol speaks English they can make it in America. This ain’t Japan. Shakira made it here because she actually brought her own distinct Latin music to our audiences, that’s what got her popular, it was different than what we usually heard. What did Wonder Girls bring over to America? pop music that we have already been using with shittier Engrish. If they’re going to come to the States with a backed up Korean company at least bring a “Korean” flare to the scene if not, you’re just another copy of American music. K-pop will never make it in the US due to the fact that there’s really nothing “Korean” sounding about K-pop.
THIS
i’m just adding at your comment… to make it big, Shakira worked 10 years prior her English debut which was 11 years ago. I mean Shakira has 21 years of career. And even her English career is very unique compared to others artists.
What i’m trying to say is some misinformed people think it’s easy succeed in U.S. but it’s not.
Korea’s problem (I could say Japan and possibly China’s/Taiwan’s problem too) is that any uniqueness from their culture was squashed to nothingness thanks to WW2, Korean War, dictatorships, oppression from said dictatorships that limited artistic freedom, and occupation from other countries (namely Japan and US). From 1920′s onward, Korea’s only music influences came outside of their country because their own culture and freedoms were banned from them for as long as the 80′s. Even in the 90′s and up until today, you still see artists get ban hammered for the most redonkulous stuff (alcohol references? slang? wtf????) and get limited in what they can release/do/say/think unless they want to risk being 19+’d or remain underground/indie.
^ This is why when their artists come here, they sound like try hards musically: lost cultural identity. Not their fault. They just need to find a way to get inventive to bring their own history back and infuse it with today’s sounds. As for the reason artists fail… Without their contrived variety show ready answers, music shows every week, and company backing, the artists (and the company for that matter) don’t have a clue what to do. They can learn English all they want, but that won’t take away generations of the learned behavior/survival technique of “keep your mouth shut about unpleasentries” and the community driven mindset that’s prevalent in Asian communities compared to American uniqueness and individuality.
That is problematic for Asia in itself because most of the popular music today is based on European and African influences. Historically, I mean.
So unless world tastes do a 180 or Asia somehow manages to incorporate their traditional instruments into something that sounds good, they’ll have to innovate something different within the construct of Western music (“Gangnam Style”).
I’m glad Psy isn’t taking the whole “making it in America” thing too seriously. He seems to be downplaying it every time he’s interviewed about it. I think it’s YG that’s pushing him to explore options in America.
“Gangnam Style” was just a great/funny music video that went viral. Sure, maybe some people thought the song was catchy, too, but it’s really all about the MV.
But Psy doesn’t have a realistic chance of “making it” in America any more than any other viral-video YouTube star.
And neither does anyone else in K-pop.
K-pop will almost definitely remain a niche genre in America. Some of these idols/groups will still be able to sell concert tickets here, but they won’t put a dent in the Billboard charts.
As history has shown over and over again, trying to adapt K-pop to the US market is just a waste of time and money. The real fans don’t like the English versions of K-pop songs anyways.
Instead, they should just continue to promote in their main Asian markets and let the internet (Allkpop, Youtube, etc) do all the overseas promoting for them (for free). Then, as demand dictates, continue to hold K-pop concerts here.
There are many bands that have made lots of money just doing concerts for their loyal fan base with no mainstream hits or promotions whatsoever. Based on the prices they charge for K-pop concert tickets here, it seems to be a pretty profitable demographic.
K-pop needs to just embrace it’s niche status and cater to its true fans and stop wasting money on pipe-dreams.
I’m not sure.
There are talents in korea that could honestly make it if they wanted to, and managed themselves well enough.
So I wouldn’t consider it to be a pipe dream.
Mmmmm….no, it’s really a pipe dream. At least in the way the korean CEOs put it in the interviews.
They seriously think that someday kpop idols will rule the world.
Of course, one or several Korean singers can make it big. But kpop groups massively taking over the world’s charts? N-to-the-fuckin-O.
OH
alright.
yea, taking over the world is hilariously impossible.
I’m not saying there’s literally zero chance – just that it’s extremely unlikely and therefore not worth the risk/expense/effort (ex. Wonder Girls).
I could see someone like Ailee being successful in America, but only because she is a REALLY talented singer and she is American.
But would that even count as a K-pop crossover success? I don’t think so. It would be more of a homecoming.
Just like Dara from 2NE1, who first found success as a singer in the Philippines, isn’t considered a “Filipino Pop-Music” crossover success. She’s just a Korean girl who happened to make it in another country before finding success back home.
Agree. Them main reason why “Gangnam Style” went viral is because of the “WTF” factor in the MV.
Idols try too hard to look always pretty, cute, cool or hot (depends of the concept). PSY and his “no-fucks-given-video-style” was something fresh and different.
Just watch the new version of the MV with the typical “box” background. It’s boring as fuck and it has nothing to do with Hyuna’s annoying voice.
Exactly. And Korea is prolly like “seeing the response, we should make more videos like this to go international”
I dint know the this new version was out I love hyuan but she just shit all over this song I wonder why they make this new version it was totally unnecessary anyways is cool to see hyuna again
Yep. PSY was different and fun didn’t care about poking fun himself, but that doesn’t mean a real advance
“As history has shown over and over again, trying to adapt K-pop to the US market is just a waste of time and money. The real fans don’t like the English versions of K-pop songs anyways.
Instead, they should just continue to promote in their main Asian markets and let the internet (Allkpop, Youtube, etc) do all the overseas promoting for them (for free). Then, as demand dictates, continue to hold K-pop concerts here.
There are many bands that have made lots of money just doing concerts for their loyal fan base with no mainstream hits or promotions whatsoever. Based on the prices they charge for K-pop concert tickets here, it seems to be a pretty profitable demographic.”
It’s exactly what SM is doing post-The Boys. Be exotic/niched product is more profitable. All it need to do is just feeding the hype.
I sort of agree.
On the other hand, I hope Asian American artists start owning.
:o
This is how i feel about k-pop artists crossing over:
Until Asian-American performers make it in the music industry like really successfully with numerous singles/albums on billboard charts, i don’t think k-pop will ever make it out of the niche genre category. There is something to be said when kpop fans are so eager to push an international performer that is no different from american pop artists/sounds besides the language of the songs. America will not embrace an international Asian artist until Asian-Americans actually have success/recognition in this country. Its like how Shakira had the opportunity to cross-over because there were other latin@-american artists (Selena, Gloria Estefan etc) before her that lessened the stigma around being a mainstream latin@ artist.
Are you talking about Selena Gomez?
WTF Shakira came way before her. Christ.
I think she’s talking about Selena Perez.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selena that Selena. Selena Gomez is a baby compared to the beast that she was, even if it was her death that pushed her into super-stardom.
Sorry but Selena wasn’t a beast. I mean she is known for her death and not for her vocal abilities.
Now Whitney Houston was a beast of a singer. Girl had mad skills
haha, I was second guessing that while I typed it but my brain is dead from lack of sleep and I couldn’t think of a better word, so I just said fuck it.
Selena was a niche artist (until her death), Gloria Estefan was more mainstream in 80′s and early 90′s, but Ricky Martin was big too. I think the 90′s were very open to latin artists, not to U.S. only but around the world.
I’m not sure if it’s fair to compare the two. Latin music has a very distinctive sound, plus there’s always been a sizable Latin population in the US. Latin music really started becoming known in the 30′s with jazz, swing, and big bands, around the same time radio’s became popular. Whether people realize it or not Latin music is as much a part of American music history.
I think it’s easier to accept a Latino musician/singer in the US because since radio’s beginnings, there has been Latino music/songs/musicians/singers in the US. You can’t really say the same for Asians. Which, I guess, makes it all the more harder for an Asian-American/Asian to be successful here.
I agree in regards to fact that kpop does need to stop mimicking western trends however I think thats part of the same reason why its popular with international fans that famillarity makes it easier to relate to which is why alot of fans say kpop is better than jpop beause it have that ‘japanese feel’ to it.
Also althought they mimick the west, they some mangage to do it in a unique way thats make you feel like your watching somwthing different, for example I cant stand one direction but I like and went to Beast concert, both are boy groups, both have a decent range of talent both somewhat goodlooking however I would not go to a one direction concert even if you paid me
There were always ‘boy bands’ and ‘girl bands’ in western music industry, however, the aggregate meaning of ‘boy band’ in western, today, is very pejorative compared with to the past meaning.
Yes, it has helped them gain niche popularity. But if they want mainstream popularity, it’s gonna have to be something different.
Think that was the point.
“Authenticity over training. Uniqueness over talent.”
YES. YES. EXACTLY. This is why American pop music feels like such a waste of time to me.
+1 for u
LOOL
I don’t follow America’s music scene but I agree. Personally, I’ve always preferred uniqueness over talent. I just find it more…entertaining, I guess? It’s just like in our local music scene. There are thousands of Filipinos who can sing just like or even better than the artists (including Charice) who succeeded in our music scene but these successful ones have this certain uniqueness to them, like a brand only they have, and that’s why they’re so popular.
P.S. The title reminded me of Friendster. LOL
“..A brand only they have.”
THIS so much. It actually plays right into the whole business factor of music. It increases demand since you’re the ONLY one who has that voice or that uniqueness or whatever. If anyone can “copy” you, then you’re not that special anymore.
I agree that I haven’t found an Asian singer on YouTube or elsewhere with that “unique” factor American exs are looking for. People complain about racism but from what I’ve seen, they are just SO vanilla and boring. Their videos and covers are something I watch on a rainy day with nothing else to do. I have NO incentive to look them up on a busy day or waste my time subscribing/following/etc.
I like Charice and other Asian singers but I agree that they are not that special. Talented yes, but they don’t have that “it” factor.
I agree with you about the boredom. The subversion factor is absent in some kpop acts.
Ailee?
Latin-American music been around before Shakira was even thought of. In fact Celia Cruz is the queen of Latino music. An Afro-Cuban who inspired Gloria Estefan and Selina. In fact disco is inpsired by Latino music salsa and zumba. But black soul,gosphel,jazz and blues were the biggest influence on American pop culture. Even during WW II Nazis imprison blacks and used them for entertainment. Sounds sick but its not different with America policy having black musician and singers coming through the back door. And never being credit for their composing or musicianship.
Immigration and stronge unionship among latinos and black americans what help these generes over come.
If you are gonna use other ethnic cultures and their influence on american pop culture. Please take deep consideration of the history. How it took decades and centuries to be rightfully recognize.
I don’t think having sex appeal, speaking good english or the right sound will help kpop bands. Or soloist It will give them a buzz but I don’t see longivity. Using Far East Movement as an example how Asian Americans charted Billboard has a weak point. For starters these guys existed years prior. They only had one hit song “like a G6.” They haven’t had a major follow up. Not to many AA artists has follow in those foot steps afterwords.
The article made a good point. The more authentic an artist feels to the public. The more appealing they will be to their target audience. You can’t just superficially sum up music marketing. Although people may say Rihanna is popular cause she is a great piece of ass. Lady Gaga is popular casue she is so escentric and club friendly. There is something about their personalities as well catchy beats that has people coming back for more. It doesn’t feel force or trained.
Kpop biggest appeal is the fact its Korean (mean sung in Hangul), practice out dated personas only found in bubble gum teen pop scene from the 90s and painfully conservative. You take those factors out and make kpop to western it will quickly lose it appeal.
Kpop needs to change from within before it continues to explore foreign music markets. Business wise its to far behind and niave. This article didn’t mention how record labels are more gear towards management than anything else in the west. Or the need of enterpernuership of soloist since music is no longer lucrative. Kpop soloist couldn’t navigate american music business without being taken advantage. Expectations of mega stardom will be kpop biggest downfall.
I agree that part of K-pop’s appeal is the Korean language itself.
Korean (to my western ears, anyways) just sounds better than any other Asian language.
Take the same K-pop songs and sing them in Chinese or Vietnamese and I’d hate them. Japanese sounds okay, but it still doesn’t sound as pleasant as Korean – especially in music.
I also prefer the Korean version of a song over its English version mainly because the English version almost always reveals how silly the lyrics really are.
I’m just a casual K-pop fan and if I feel this way, I’m sure most real K-pop fans feel even stronger about keeping K-pop in the Korean language.
So, K-pop has a dilemma: to have even a chance at cracking the US market, they’re going to have to sing in English, but doing so will alienate their existing fan base here.
I just don’t think the trade-off is worth it, given the very low likelihood of real mainstream success.
I agree about Kpop being in another Asian language. I also think it’s the most laziest way to make profits in another market. Same song + diff. language = different flow and/or delivery, especially when you not fluent with the other language. Its not always the case since some…(okay few) Kpop songs sounds good in Mandarin or Japanese.
@mcf yeah korean language is funny,but please don’t taunt another asian language,please… :)
I don’t mean to disrespect any other languages. Some languages just sound a lot better to me than others. I think everyone feels that way, regardless of their preference.
Languages like Korean and Japanese probably sound better to me than other Asian languages because I can hear distinct words and syllables in the language. I could picture myself learning and speaking those languages. Contrast that to Chinese, where I can’t even distinguish words in a sentence – the language just sounds like a bunch of random noises to me. Not that it is a bad thing – it just sounds a lot less familiar to me.
Anyways, I was basically just trying to point out one of the possible reasons why K-pop has had a broader international appeal than other forms of Asian pop music. I believe the sound of the language has something to do with it (it does for me, anyways).
@mcf
No you had a good point. I think people mistaken it as Korean being more superior than other Asian languages. What you spoke of is how music really works.
People use the old saying “music is universial”. Yes if you are talking about just music it self without the image,voice,idea (lyrics) and language. You you give music a face,a singer(s),lyrics and language this open the doors for discrimination. People will choose base upon those factors if they enjoy it or not.
That’s implying because kpop is a form a music it should be like by the masses. No people like kpop because of the Korean language. It can be said the same for Japanese music or even Latin music. The dialect of the singer greatly effects the over all music quailty.
There is a certain pitch and chord variations that Korean has that feels more pleasent then Japanese and Chinese. But some can say the same for Japanese or Chinese.
You made an excellent point on the many of reasons people may prefer Korean over other Asian pop music. As well a set back.
@mybiasbeatsyourbias
Can I be your friend?
I like you already.
I think Japanese sounds better than Korean
I do too.
Korean and Japanese are syllable-tymed languages while Chinese is a tonal language.
I have to agree with you hear.
Listening to k-pop has made me want to actually learn the language because I find it to be very fluid and pretty.
“And here’s how you know you’ve really made it – when American labels are willing to invest money for your debut in the States.”
And not from you or your company begging/ making deals to promote you.
If Americans don’t come for you, it’s because they don’t want you. I get so annoyed with these groups and companies thinking that because they’re “idols” they’ll automatically be big here. If they would be big, people would’ve reached out to get a hold of them first- NOT the other way around
None of the reasons that Korean, or asian artists in general, have really taken off in the States are unique to Asian artists. To succeed in music, you basically have one of 3 strategies.
The most dependable way is to cater to a smaller niche audience and make dedicated fans of them. The downside is that you only have a niche audience, and nobody is coming from being a big star overseas just to be a niche artist here.
The most expensive way is to just saturate your image/sound everywhere so even the people who hate you get your songs stuck in their head anyway. So far, Korean companies have basically done none of these things, so it’s not suprising they hav
If you really want to make it big, you need a unique marketing proposition. What do you have to offer that people aren’t getting somewhere else? Why should anybody stop and take notice of you? Most level headed k-pop fans will tell you that it’s just simple, manufactured pop music that is easy to digest. The thing is, there is no shortage of that anywhere else, so if you want other people to listen and care on any kind of scale, you kind of need to have something better to offer than “hey guys, more of the same shit, but WE’RE ASIAN!!! :D”
And it’s the same as if they came from anywhere else. Americans in general will care more about Kpop when Kpop gives them a reason to give a shit.
People I believe might have a chance in America :
Ailee- Born in America, Extremely Fluent in English, Youtube success story, Amazing Voice
CL- Voice is super recognizable, an ok rapper/singer, great performer, fluent in english
off topic,thanks for you all..thanks to recommend me Kyary Pamyu Pamyu – Pon Pon PV
now that video and super-weird-but-cute video infect me and can’t get away from my brain until now ^^
now now, don’t call pon pon pv is super-weird-but-cute video. let’s say imaginative and colorfully artistic instead =)
on serious note, i do think pon pon pv is like unleashing and reflecting kids’ imaginative power. ah, that’s magical land of childhood dream.
:o
oh okay,mr popo..
yes,the video is creative..but i cannot understand the message of the video…can you tell me,please?? :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PonPonPon
Thank you Matutine :)
I wish I was Kyary
I agree about being “different” and fresh is a necessity. Even with Kpop, I mean one day the Korean audience is going to be fed up with the recycled shit. Most Koreans (excluding die hard fans) seem already tired of it from what I hear.
But having a story to tell? Idk. That was an interesting angle you mentioned but tbh I really couldn’t care less about Justin Bieber’s or Lady Gaga’s or whoever’s stories. I don’t think Americans care THAT much about where an artist came from (from your article I’m assuming they have to come from a humble or poor background? Doesn’t make much sense to me…), as long as they make good music.
Also, stories don’t have to be rags to riches to be inspiring, romantic or authentic. I can’t see how Americans would be turned off at say, maybe a doctor’s or businessman’s kid making mindblowing music. Anyone can love or write great music, coming from a rich family or not. Of course, there’s always that “their parents paid off his producers” stigma but if the artist is actually good and puts in the work and creative control like anyone else – unlike Willow Smith with her freaking rich actor parents who do everything for her – then I don’t see why not.
I think what you were trying to emphasize was the “overly” manufactured nature of Kpop can be off putting for American audiences, which I agree with (I focus on overly since it seems to be more manufactured than perhaps other idol groups?). Justin Bieber’s world tour documentary was on TV the other day – yes I watched it – and even he seemed to have tons more input than say, your average Kpop idol. Some of the more independent idols like Big Bang or Brown Eyed Girls who do their own shit, seem to be on par with Bieber in this area but the majority of Kpop idols are not.
Anyway, you don’t even have to be nice or America’s sweetheart or be smart with a college degree and shit to sell. Kanye in all his rude glory got into the mainstream just fine lol. Americans seem to be flexible in this area in terms of personality (probably because it makes people more “individual”).
I think maybe being excessively fake or boring, or both, are the major obstacles for anyone debuting in the States.
Korean firms training system does not create independent minded artists but great commodities.
Bieber hass a connection with his audience because he seems rather down to earth and open. Lady Gaga is in a fight for gay rights and cam from a ignoble start.. she was a cathloci school girl who played the piano and was a total music geek. Riahanna was also from humble background. Kanye was also from a humble background raised by his single mother and was a producer prior. Lil wayne was from poverty started in cash money when he was just 14 years old. I’m starting to see a pattern here.
Many of those a mention started in music. Whether it was playing an insturment,performing at a young age or being a composer. kpop idol have similar starts or came from more well off families like CL or Siwon of Suju. You have Jaejoong who was adopted.
How an artists starts out affects their target audience appeal. I think the whole kpop intensive training system is such a norm in Korea. I wonder if Koreans think it is the only way to break it into the mainstream? In the U.S this does exist but not on the same level.
You say the trainee system is a norm as if it’s been going on for generations. The whole trainee system is actually pretty recent. Late 80′s through mid 90′s to be exact if you go by the times that the Big 3 were founded and established (and we can thank Kim Wansun’s upbringing and debut in ’89 for giving them the idea). There are tons upon tons of non idols and artists who aren’t “mainstream” in the sense that they’re owned by the Big 3 and they have success. The difference is: they’re not trying to go international and they’re not as driven by market value/stocks/money as the corporations are.
Their credibility and stories absolutely factor into their success.
I don’t think this could be any more true than in hip-hop.
:o
Why are we even counting success on the attention of the mainstream audience?
The mainstream audience likes whatever the fuck becomes a trend usually among rich, popular and/or famous people -> Gangnam Style
In fact this is a cycle, a famous/rich/popular person makes something cool, the mainstream audiences catches on and other famous/rich/popular people start promoting it too – Shakira had Korean drummers on her performance at some TV show; Justin Bieber’s representatives want to meet up with Psy; Nelly Furtado just announced she would like a collab with a Korean or Japanese artist…
Korean companies do the mistake to wanting to draw the attention of the mainstream while they have a perfectly working relationship with the global kpop fan subculture.
You always talk about Japan having flopped marketing their entertainers – no, they flopped marketing them to a mindless horde of people. There are plenty of conventions various acts are invited to, many groups and solo artists of jpop and jrock have had global tours and perform regularly oversees.
They have a solid but growing and changing fan culture and I wouldn’t call that a flop.
South Korea needs to learn to appreciate the small scale but solid and loyal success. It’s pointless to force themselves on people who consider Kesha a singer.
Korean needs to take a piece of humble pie or get hit in the face with it.
This so much. I think that’s the main reason why crossover attempts fail. The US market is a whole different beast then the Asian market. Watching groups fail is like watching someone throw a non-swimmer into a violent ocean and expecting them to swim, when that person doesn’t even know what the ocean is. It never made sense to me why they think it’ll go well when they try to enter the US market from the top.
Exactly what I’m thinking.
Kasha can sing, I think all the auto-tune is for fun or was part of the trend like you said.
Holy shit, I didn’t realized that this article was not written by IATFB until the end.
And I can’t believe it’s not butter
I personally think promotion is one of the major factors for Kpop to even be popular or compete in the US. People can talk about the language barrier, the different-ish style and their look and talent (or lack of) but… no one is gonna know who they are if they’re not promoted right. Oooh performing on Letterman and Kelly is…. nothing. That’s how I think previous artists and oversea Asian acts fail except for Puffy (they did kinda eventually.. they just.. stopped) It’s like they release an album, maybe get very little aiplay on MTV (very very little esp since MTV does crap with music anyway) and might promote at some small place in one city and that’s it. They didn’t really gain much new potential fans and the only people who cared were previous fans of the domestic stuff.
The thing is, no one wants to deal with another copycat of themselves.
K-pop might sound different because of the language, but really, it’s the same kind of tune you’d hear in America. They need to loosen up and find their own sound (if that’s possible) and steal a ramen bowl at a restaurant without paying it or something.
“Authenticity over training. Uniqueness over talent.”
This is the daily mantra said by some blackjacks about 2NE1.
Preach
I’ve been saying this since forever. Realistically, if Korean artists just stayed as they were, even if it was the bubble gum fluff, they’d fair much better than trying to mimic the US market.
As much as i would’ve liked to see BoA to succeed in the US, all her songs sounded like any other american pop-dance music featuring some rapper. Without an individualistic identity to tie the music to, the song won’t stand in the american market.
Reminds me also of when i was watching “The Voice” (US and UK version)
While Jessie J and Christina A. Might focus on runs, the vocal tricks, and vocal ranges (which are impressive in every sense), most of the other judges always talk about that “special tone”– the one that will either make your skin crawl or the one that you will recognize instantly when you turn on the radio. All of this ties back into the concept of individuality. The idea that if you are amazingly talented, then you’ll have to be one above all others (the once in a generation ones) or you are someone so distinct you’re unmistakable (ie. Adam Levine from Maroon5)
I think the whole obsession Will.I.Am has with 2ne1 also correlates because they’re “different”, or better yet, “foreign”. There’s a segment in 2ne1 TV where he compares them to GAGA and how 2ne1 has her beat cause the Korean language is so foreign that “you can’t even read it”
Today’s generation in america is all about individualism, and from this is born the constant need for artists to be different. Most of them have turned towards being “foreign”.. or just weird– a la Lady Gaga
I personally don’t care about the background story of the artist. Just give me good music. But if a person is from korea or does kpop I wanna see some of that in their music if they decide to come to america. Rihanna always goes back to her roots of Barbados at least in a couple songs on an album. And I personally enjoy that. For me I guess its finding the right balance between their home country and america.
How complicated is “NO”
Interesting post. I agree with all of your statements in regard to solo “K-divas” such as G.NA, but those statements don’t apply to most K-pop groups. Most of the well-known K-pop groups rely on idol personalities, variety shows, fandoms, etc.The American music industry certainly won’t change to accommodate that idol culture (at least, not anytime soon), so these groups won’t get off the ground in the US market unless they adopt western trends in mainstream pop. And that would be silly and unfortunate.