Asian Junkie Asian pop. Without discretion.
For many, Psy‘s success with “Gangnam Style” came from nowhere. And yet ”Gangnam Style”, the undisputed release of this summer, represents the crowning moment of a slow, and at certain junctures, painfully arduous climb to the top. After spending over a decade in the business, Psy, after six albums, has finally mastered the rules of the game. That’s not a learning curve most K-pop labels are comfortable with, but Psy is no idol, as this latest release makes very clear. And, perhaps, as I’ll return to later, this is the reason for his viral success.
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The Berklee-educated musician made his debut in 2002 to little public fanfare. Two of his albums, “For Children” and “For Adults“, were both slammed with sales bans to minors on the basis of their content. Meanwhile, Psy made headway in the realm of variety comedy, where he created a name for himself with parody dances of popular idols (think Jo Kwon). Fast forward to 2010, when, after serving four years in the military (he was found guilty of improperly finishing his two-year service and was forced to complete another two), he joined YG Entertainment and made a comeback with “Right Now“, encouraged in part by the success of DJ DOC‘s comeback.
Experience has made Psy better at masking his subversive bent in the trappings of his infectiously catchy pop numbers. In fact, Psy is still the same Psy from his debut; he’s just gotten better at packaging the more controversial aspects of his artistic persona away from public view. The cheekiness is still there, just more hidden from view – e.g. “77 101” (feat. Leessang and Kim Jin Pyo). Of course, Korea has also loosened up since his debut, and it’s not as staunchly conservative as it used to be, though compared to its peers it still has a long way to go.
But besides the obvious pop successes, this album also has its reflective and contemplative moments, which have unfortunately been overlooked in Psy’s incredible rise to the top. We get songs filled with that certain kind of honesty and vulnerability that can only come from a man in his 30s looking back on life.
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1. Tree Frog (feat. G-Dragon) – Guitar-driven rock with a be-yourself message, but don’t be caught off-guard by the (random?) screamo bit towards the end.
2. Passionate Goodbye (feat. Sung Si Kyung) – Sung Si Kyung and Psy go way back, and they finally collaborate on a wonderful, electronic-ized version of a typical K-pop ballad. Sung Si Kyung’s gorgeous vocals shine, as usual.
3. Gangnam Style – An electro-pop number that bears striking similarities to its electro-rock cousin “Right Now”.
4. 77 101 – (feat. Leessang and Kim Jin Pyo) – A nostalgic, laid back hip-hop number that’s unfortunately banned for its use of explicit language.
5. What Would It Have Been Like (feat. Park Jung Hyun) – An emotional number reflecting on love lost. A wonderful ballad made even better with an assist from “Korea’s fairy”, Park Jung Hyun.
6. Never Say Goodbye (feat. Yoon Do Hyun) – A rock number featuring the legendary Yoon Do Hyun. It begins with a piano-led intro before diving into a full-blown rock number. Fans of Green Day will find familiar stomping grounds here.
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Check out my remixes here, hit me up on Twitter (@TESTAMENTVM), or be awesome and do both.
Soooooo…. This is only the first part? Or is he doing that repackaging shit that Kpop groups love to do and call it Part 2?
*calling
Wow
He’s probably going to release an American collaboration.
…single
Not even sure how that is gonna work.
In addition to the 130 million+ views for the actual music video, one thing that has amazed me is how anything on YouTube that is ‘Gangnam Style’-related is an instant hit.
People who averaged a couple thousand views per video on their channel post a GS parody or cover of some sort and it racks up millions of views overnight.
For instance, the Waveya dance team’s GS dance cover that IATFB posted about a few weeks ago now has almost 11 million views:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpZhZAr1cQU
Even stupid “reaction videos” are getting millions of views.
I’m not sure I’ve seen any YouTube phenomenon like this where simply posting any related video guarantees tons of views like that.
TMZ had something on him. I kinda said earlier that I wouldn’t consider anyone from kpop “making it” until that point. I feel like TMZ runs actual shit and if you’re on it, you’re the shit
But yes, pretty much anything to do with GS seems to have that happen
Never heard of TMZ, what is it?
http://www.tmz.com/ Entertainment news, gossip, tabloids, and all that stuff. Claims to give more juicy shit on people than anyone else.
You know how there many entertainment shows and magazines pretty much suck up to celebrities and only talk about “OOOOOH- SHE SO SEXAY IN THIS FLATTERING DRESS” or “DATING OR NOT, AND HOW WOULD THE MOM FEEL” type shit?
TMZ likes to show celebrities as the imbeciles they are. If you go onto their YouTube channel, there are all of these extremely amusing and funny butthurt fans complaining about TMZ’s “rude” comments from “stupid douchebags”
And I’m just sitting here like “L O FREAKING L”
Really? Now i must watch it :)
TMZ are actually more credible to me than the Korean/Japanese media.
Their shit isn’t even as sensationalist and they’re right more often when they break news.
I feel like a Waveya hipster now.
About time the review came out :3
I haven’t heard the other songs on the album yet. So I’ll go by this review but what I am readin thus far. Fits the norm of PSY style of pop blend he is usual does.
He is one of the better artist and entertainer coming from YG in a while.
Yeah I’m gonna say that BB and 2ne1 ain’t shit to me these days. I wonder for Gummy though. She has got to be the most neglected artist on that label.
The 2nd most neglected is Se7en. Where the hell are they?
Se7en’s career is over. :o
Don’t cry for him too hard though, he gets to marry PHB.
Also he’s old (for Kpop) so I don’t see many fans anymore aha
Gummy is promoting in Japan (she went there a couple years back so she could learn the lang/culture and shit before putting anything out) and se7en is… i have no fucking clue.
he released something in february but since then i haven’t seen anything of his.
:o
Se7en most neglected? I thought he would release a shitacular mini album than enlist. He did his mini album so the military must be next.
My only beef with Gummy is that her music is very mediocre for her voice. I liked the Loveless album but wanted so much more and vocally she is an excellent singer. Even Suk said Gummy isn’t something he suspects to make any real big progress.
Personally I don’t know why she is in Japan. I mean she did when a Billboard award but her voice isn’t appealing to me in Japanese.
“My only beef with Gummy is that her music is very mediocre for her voice.”
I agree. ;_; I love her voice. Normally I can’t stand ballads, but I love when Gummy sings them. She needs to release more music!
The album with Gangnam Style on it only gets 4.5 stars for style? What madness is this?!
dear TESTAMENTVM,
what is ur favourite track in this album except Gangnam Style?
This guy is like the asian equivalent of Vanilla Ice. They both wear suits and have a similar dancing style. “Gangnam Style” is like “Ice Ice Baby”. It will be his one and only hit in the US. Then everyone will started hating on him and he’ll be remembered as a joke just like Vanilla Ice. Everyone will start making fun of his stupid dance and he’ll try to distance himself from his past by trying to drastically change his image and music. Soon he’ll be in and out of rehab and unable to get his life together just like Vanilla Ice. I’m not hating on him, I’m just saying that …actually I am hating on him. This guy is a joke. I’d rather listen to William Hung. At least his music is so bad that it’s good.
Y U NO RIEK PSY?
I don’t like his music, image, and dance moves. I don’t like rappers who wears suits, dance, and do collaborations with pop singers. That’s not real rap. Rap used to be about flow and rhyme. Now it’s about “swag”. “Swag” isn’t a good substitute for talent. Back in the day rap had meaningful lyrics with a strong message. Today’s rap songs are about bumping hoes, partying, and bragging about how much $$ they make. Psy represents everything that’s wrong with today’s hip hop. He puts very little effort into his lyrics. His songs rely on commerical appeal, cheesy dancing and pop collabs to be successful. He makes millions of dollars, becomes super famous and gets a lot of pussy and I mean a LOT of pussy. On the other hand, the MCs of La Coka Nostra spend years perfecting their lyrics and put their hearts and souls into their songs. They are a critically acclaimed underground hip hop group that makes very little money and they probably don’t get much pussy either. They are very well known. It bothers me that the musicians with the least talent and put the least amount of effort into their music get the most fame, $$$ and pussy. Yet very few appreciate the genius of La Coka Nostra.
To sum it up, I hate Psy cause he gets more pussy than I do. Maybe I should come up with a stupid dance, then I can get laid everyday :)
*I meant they are NOT very well know.
I can’t argue with that. My response is basically what mcf said. PSY been doing stuff like this for a while, but this song just happen to give more recognition. While I agree, it’s like the Macarena; they’re songs with a catchy beat and dance that people took and ran with it. But if you compared him to the usual kpop act these days, he’s like breath of fresh air.
Psy also reminds me of Far East Movement. Their music styles and image are really similar. I remember “Like a G6″ was super popular for a while and they haven’t been able to make another hit since then. They’re one hit wonders. “Gangnam Style” is basically “Like a G6″ part 2 with Vanilla Ice style dancing.
Lol, well apparently Scooter Braun said he and PSY agreed to “make history together” in the USA and have PSY pump out more worldwide hits and become a global star…. lol.
how do you know he gets more pussy than you? or that he gets pussy at all?
@bb2 I kept hearing that he’s a playboy and all that. ….Or he might actually like the penis. http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma3kszIPMI1qbv037.jpg Oooh, I tried it.
I’m pretty sure that he’s tapping bitches, or bitches wanna be tapped by him. To each their own though. JYP is an insult to my 5 senses, but chicks would actually would….do things with him…. -shudders-, just because of his money…or whatever.
You’re comparing a pop act to an underground hip hop group? You expect the masses to appreciate that kind of stuff more than stuff that just sounds good?
It’s NEVER gonna happen and I’m not sure it even SHOULD happen. Like it didn’t matter what the message of “Rolling In The Deep” was if it didn’t SOUND good. People only hype the meaning because it’s mainstream sounding.
I suppose you could resent that too, and many do, but I don’t think it should be held against people that they don’t want to listen to deep, emotional, complex stuff all the time. Even I don’t, hence K-pop/J-pop.
On a daily basis, I’d still rather listen to “Fuck You” than most of the well-written, well-produced stuff Cee Lo Green has done that mainstream audiences haven’t heard of. It’s just easier to consume while riding to work in the car. I don’t want to listen to Immortal Technique rapping about raping his mom in “Dance With The Devil” on my way to work.
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Groups like that are never going to be pop because their style isn’t.
Canibus did this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1d4_FtONEc
Which is better than just about anything you’re gonna hear, but I’m not gonna hate on pop acts because he’s not mainstream for it. That song isn’t mean to be appealing to the masses and expecting so is delusional.
Same for your criticism of Psy, who hardly takes himself seriously as a rapper or a representative of hip hop. So why would you?
Uh…you mad?
Not trying to be rude, but what’s the point of having amazing, meaningful lyrics when
1) People won’t realize it
2) It’s not catchy
3) They generally don’t care
Your comment is equivalent to the “begging meme” where they don’t understand the outcome that has occurred.
It’s quite simple though, majority of people listening to music listen for simplicity.
Think of any successful mainstream single right now and you’ll understand.
People have busy lives and don’t have time to sit down and concentrate on music. Whether it’s on the radio, movie or YouTube, what captures your attention is the simple and catchy chorus where you find yourself begging for more later on in the day because you remembered it even though you heard it once.
That’s why most mainstream artists choose singles that will capture your attention, so you become a fan and listen to their album when you have free time. If you really want to be known as an artist that has deep and meaningful lyrics, put them on the album and let the fan realize for themselves sooner or later. It’s much better to have people listen to your shitty music than have no one listen to your good ones at all. Also people are the ones who decide if lyrics are great or not. They generally decide based on experience, for example, if you’ve been through a breakup recently and heard Adele’s “Someone Like You”, you’d believe it’s subliminal. Compare that to someone who hasn’t been through what you have, they’ll say it’s a “love” song, nothing more, nothing less.
So when you compare Psy to La Coka Nostra (which is an unfair comparison), my response is…you mad?
^ http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w286/punklad/GIFs/neckroll.gif OH NO YOU DIDN’T just dissed my friend like that heffa! jk, he’s on his own on this one. I too like Gangnam style, I also know it’s not meant to be a “masterly created” piece of art. Which basically what every mainstream trend isn’t today.
But seriously, it really depends on what taste of music people have. And it seems most people if not everybody, has one or a few of guilty pleasures when it comes to senseless, but catchy music. For example, “Rude Boy” is my fucking jam till I die even though is her singing about shagging a guy with a big dick. It might not be the next person’s cup of tea, but instead they might like ‘Barbie Girl’ by Aqua (fucking stupid song), but hey, that what makes us human right? At the same time at least we know what’s actually good music. That said, Gangnam Style isn’t gonna be liked by everyone. Viral or not. I know PSY isn’t caring one bit either but making his way to the nearest bank.
Milkshake by Kelis is the greatest song ever created on this fucking cock sucking planet.
So deep and describes my life perfectly.
@IATFB Yes, I’m comparing a mainstream hip hop act to an underground hip hop group. No, I never said I expected the masses to appreciate that kind of stuff. The masses will always listen to what’s trendy and hip. They’ll chose Lil Wayne over La Coka Nostra anyday. I never said I took Psy seriously as a rapper I said he’s a joke. You may not think of him as a representative of hip hop but the American masses will. Most Americans have never heard Korean hip hop until “Gangnam Style”. Therefore Americans will assume all Korean hip hop sounds like “Gangnam Style”. And whenver they think of Korean hip hop, Psy will pop up in their heads. As an unintended consequence of Gangnam Style’s popularity, Psy has become the representative of of Korean hip hop in the eyes of most Americans.
@linyang95 No, not mad. No need to be so defensive. “begging meme”?? Not trying to be rude but the begging meme suits your post a bit more. Your comment kinda sounds like “thesupremekaidbz, please admit you are wrong about Psy and tell us how much you love his music. Look at me I’m a cute kitty cat. Pweeeze!!!”. I know your comment really didn’t sound like that but that was a sarcastic exaggeration of your comment. All I did in my post was point out why I don’t like Psy and why I feel he doesn’t deserve the money, fame and pussy that he gets. I don’t like him. I can’t help it. “It’s much better to have people listen to your shitty music than have no one listen to your good ones at all.” I disagree. Many musicians would be too embarassed to have people listen to any of their shitty music. If I were a rapper, I’d much rather have no one listen to any of my music then to have them listen to my shitty music.
The quote below isn’t directed at anyone here. It’s just a post I found on the net, that explains why many people listen to mainstream music. I just replaced Nickelback with Psy and rock with rap
“to present the allegory of Plato’s Cave. Suppose a group of people are raised from birth inside a darkened cave, chained to chairs facing a wall. Now, on this wall shadows of forms are projected. Now, given that these people are raised from birth inside the cave, these shadows and forms are all they know of the world; in their minds, they ARE the world. But suppose one of them is dragged to the surface, and sees for the first time what the world is really like, full of color and life. And if they went back down into the cave, they’d never be able to look at the pictures on the wall as anything but mere shadows.
So it is with music. For most people, their only experience with music comes in the form of sanitized, corporate radio-[rap], typified by [Psy]. But once you listened to music beyond the mainstream; been “dragged out of the cave” so to speak, you never really look at the mainstream with such fondness as you did before.” – some random guy on the internet
I’ve listened to a ton of underground rap in my lifetime, but I still enjoy pop rap as well.
That quote you just posted is hipster shit that people say to make themselves feel special. The sooner people realize that they’re not, the better off we all are.
Even talented mainstream artists have lyrically complex songs that tackle deeper topics, but you won’t see that on a single or bumping in clubs, so it won’t blow up, generally. That’s the way it is for everything.
You’re basically complaining about Psy because he’s mainstream and is popular. He knows what he’s doing and he’s fought just as hard for where he’s at than any underground act. Introducing people to underground Korean hip hop acts won’t change anybody’s mind either. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way, or in this day and age of easy information sharing, everybody with superior talent would eventually become a big name.
It doesn’t work that way because for most people, at the core, they want music to sound good first. I can’t say I have a problem with that, because otherwise what’s the difference between it and spoken word or slam poetry?
Even my favorite tracks by underground artists have a distinct flow or rapped hook that shows competent song structure beyond spoken word over bass.
Nickleback isn’t really the same as Psy, regardless.
Vanilla Ice is mocked as a joke mainly because he took himself seriously. Psy has never taken himself seriously and I don’t get the impression that he is taking the whole “international star” thing seriously, either. I think he’s just enjoying the ride while it lasts.
Worst case scenario, his 15 minutes of fame in America ends and he goes back to Korea where he is adored. He’ll continue to rake-in endorsement and concert money for years there.
Not sure what Scooter Braun has in mind for him. Actually, I doubt he even had a plan when he signed Psy. He probably just saw the explosive YouTube response and figured it would be better to sign him just in case there was any potential there.
Worse case scenario, Psy goes back to being loved in Korea.
Scooter doesn’t realize the difficulty he set himself for when he signed with Psy. He believes with the success of Justin that he understands the music media and business, even though his contribution was minimal; he found Justin and gave him over to Usher who gave him over to LA Reid. He’s optimistic, creative and hopeful but I doubt working with him will generate much success.
Yeah, but that’s not Psy’s problem.
Except Psy doesn’t take himself seriously. You’re reading way too far into his act.
I doubt he actually cares about breaking into the American market and becoming world wide. Probably whatever comes he’ll take type attitude.
If anything, his primary goal is money most likely.
It’s not like he’s young anyway, so yes as you’ve stated before…not one fuck is given
i really like never say goodbye. and the fact that it also features yoon dohyun.
just because people know psy from “gangnam style” doesn’t mean he’s always joking around. he has released numerous songs from before, ranged from something as silly as “gangnam style” to something more serious. when this worldwide craze fade, he could still making bucks in his home country.
As long as Psy continues to not give a shit, he will remain popular.
If he wants to remain popular then he’ll have to give a shit. If he doesn’t give a shit then he won’t remain popular because it’ll be redundant and people won’t care as well. Psy even said his song “Gangnam Style” is a one hit wonder because he’s been doing this type of music for a while now.
Doubt his career will continue much in America, unless the companies there are genius’.
The quote I posted is the truth. If you want to call it hipster shit to make yourself feel better, that’s fine with me. The sooner people leave the cave and listen to non mainstream music, the better off we all are. I’m no hipster but the crap hipsters listen to is miles better than Psy.
“talented mainstream artist”?? That’s an oxymoron. No mainstream artist has talent. That’s why they go mainstream in the first place. They don’t have the talent necessary to succeed in the underground scene so they rely on gimmicky dances, a massive marketing campaign, a radio friendly sound, and collaborations with pop and R&B artists to succeed. When a mainstream artist tries to go underground, they fail simply due to their lack of talent. That’s what happened to Vanilla Ice.
I’m complaining about Psy not just because he’s popular, but because he doesn’t deserve his popularity and all the pussy he gets. My complaint is more about pussy and not popularity. You don’t see me complaining about William Hung. He maybe super popular but he don’t get no pussy. He’s just way too ugly & dorky to get laid. Psy did not fight just as hard as any underground rapper. He got lucky. The label created his image, sound, and did a very good job marketing him. He puts far less effort into his music than any underground act. If he left his current label and tried to go underground, he’d fail.
Introducing people to underground hip hop will change some people’s minds. Not all of them but some. My friend introduced me to underground hip hop and I never looked at mainstream hip hop the same way after that. “everybody with superior talent would eventually become a big name” This won’t happen. The ones with superior talent get the least recognition. I mentioned that in my earlier comment.
“they want music to sound good first”?? I think you mean sound trendy. Underground hip hop sounds good and yet the masses aren’t interested in it. They are interested in what’s hip and trendy. When rap rock was popular everyone listened to it. Now nobody does. When Emo/post hardcore punk was popular everyone listened to it. Now nobody does. Now dubstep, electronic pop, electronic rock, and electronic hip hop are trending. Once the trend fades, the masses will move on to the next big thing. The masses want music that conforms to the current music trends.
Personally, I don’t mind spoken word. One of my favorite bands, Corporate Avenger alternates between spoken word and rapped vocals. I’d much rather listen to spoken word or slam poetry over Psy. In fact, I was in a slam poetry club for a few weeks, back when I was in high school. I’d say Psy is to hip hop what Nickelback is to rock.
All the arguments and essays makes me sad :(
Do you want me to stop? I was enjoying this. I love having constructive arguments on the internet. That’s also how I sometimes write papers. I start an argument on the internet and then I just copy and paste the comments I posted onto a word document. Unfortunately I don’t have comments for a paper if I stop now.
Anyways. Don’t be be sad. I’ll stop just for you since your my friend. Here this will cheer you up. It’s a pic of a bunch of little doggies running around.
http://i.imgur.com/hznS2.gif
I don’t have *enough* comments for a paper if I stop now.
I wish there was an edit button for comments.
“No mainstream artist has talent. That’s why they go mainstream in the first place.”
I stopped reading there, to be honest.
So go listen to slam poetry because slam poetry isn’t music.
Make myself feel better? You’re the one making this asinine argument that nobody mainstream is better than your underground hip hop preference.
So everybody in the hip hop underground is a more talented artist than Eminem? Shit like that just makes you sound delusional.
“Yo man, if they were talented they wouldn’t be mainstream.”
Yeah, okay.
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Just to get your argument straight: Every underground artist works harder than everybody in the mainstream. Every underground artist is more talented than everybody mainstream. Mainstream artists are only popular due to trends. Mainstream artists could never make it in the underground.
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All the mainstream artists who started underground or indie just had a raucous laugh.
I never said slam poetry was music. Again, you are putting words in my mouth. Please stop doing that. Slam poetry is poetry and not music.
Yes, you talk down to people calling the quotes they use “hipster shit” to make yourself look and feel better. No mainstream artist has more talent or works harder than any underground artist. All mainstream artists who started underground failed in the underground and that’s why they went mainstream. You are making the asinine argument that Psy works hard and actually has talent. Shit like that makes you sound delusional. I take that back. Nobody is delusional here. We all have different opinions. Having a different opinion doesn’t make anyone delusional, close minded, or ignorant.
Eminem is overrated. From the fake tough guy attitude to the surgically lowered hairline, I don’t like anything about him or his music. I will admit that he has 1 or 2 decent songs. All of his other songs are rubbish. Every underground rapper puts his music to shame.
“Yo man, if they were talented they wouldn’t be mainstream.” – I’d appreciate it if you’d quote my post word for word instead of modifying them to mock me.
No need to be so rude. I don’t know who pissed in your cereal this morning but chill out. You sound really mad. I don’t like where this is heading. I don’t want this to turn into one of those troll internet fights. Let’s try to keep this as a mature, respectful, constructive argument and keep the personal insults out of it. So before you reply to this comment, please take a deep breath, calm down, and then proceed to type. I’d really appreciate that. Thanks.
If you’re going to catch feelings over people being rude, then no need to come back to this site.
I’m not going to be engaging you over this issue any longer, because it’s asinine to do so.
Your assertion that nobody in the mainstream has talent is laughable and is not worth debating, quite frankly. I’ve had my fill of entertaining your shit.
Wow. You’re still mad. Get over it already. Like I said, take a chill pill. Everyone has a different opinion and you need to learn to accept that. Getting angry because somebody disagrees with you is childish. You remind me of those Linkin Park fans who get angry when someone tells them that Linkin Park isn’t metal.
“I’m not going to engaging you over this issue any longer, because it’s asinine to do so.” Sounds like you’re throwing in the towel. I’m guessing you can’t handle the heat. If you don’t feel like arguing no more, that’s cool with me. I’ll continue this same argument on reddit or some other site. I still need more material for a paper.
Your assertion that people in the mainstream work just as hard and are just as talented as those in the underground is laughable.
Far East Movement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avx35Mjkkhw
La Coka Nostra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53GrVNFArHQ
Far East Movement will never posses the same level of talent or put the same amount of effort & passion into their music as La Coka Nostra. The same could be said for Psy. It’s the marketing team at Psy’s label that deserves a pat on the back. They are the ones who worked their asses off. Psy would still be living in his mom’s house if not for his label. From your comments, It’s kinda obvious you haven’t heard much underground hip hop like you claimed earlier. Sounds to me that you are so insecure about the mainstream hip hop you listen to that you try so hard to validate it by claiming that it requires just as much talent and hardwork as underground hip hop.
Yes, I am banging away at my computer, furious over your opinion. Or I just don’t care anymore because it’s clear you’re either trolling or just as delusional as the mainstream fangirls and fanboys you hate. I mean, basically you admit to trolling so that I can do your homework for you. So again, why should I continue to engage you when you’re just saying absurd shit for a reaction?
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Why do you keep bringing up Far East Movement like I ever defended them as mainstream talent? You bash me for putting words in your mouth because I simplified your point but you find it okay to set up strawmen to make your own point? Cool argumentative logic, bro.
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Your assertion is that every single underground hip hop act is superior to every single mainstream hip hop act. It’s beyond idiotic to generalize to the extremes you do. The fact that I listen to a lot of underground hip hop and have been for over a decade is exactly why I know that what you said is ridiculous and asinine.
I’m not insecure about anything. It’s entertainment, I couldn’t care less if you think they don’t work hard or it’s inferior. My opinion is simply that you’re wrong.
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It’s ironic that you’re accusing me of being insecure since you are the one who came to this post and initiated this discussion by slighting every single mainstream hip hop artist and then promoting what you prefer as superior. That’s basically the hallmark of somebody who’s insecure and feels he has to prove himself.
You know that whole spiel about the “coming out of a cave” analogy? That whole thing revolved around convincing us and yourself that what you do and what you like makes your taste superior to everybody else. Now you’re trying to turn that around and put it on me? Again, laughable.
Every single one of your comments in this thread goes along the lines of trying to justify your own niche likes as better than everything others listen to so you can feel better about yourself. I called you a hipster because that’s what you are and that’s what they do.
Anyway, that’s all I have to say on this since I honestly think you’re just baiting me at this point, for whatever reason.
Have fun.
*Psy* (Notice how I said Psy instead of sigh. You got to give me some credit for the clever pun I came up with.)
“Or I just don’t care anymore” If you don’t care anymore, then why do you keep replying? It’s obvious you still care. I knew you would reply even after saying you were done. And you will reply to this comment as well. Your massive ego won’t let someone else type the last comment. That’s the best part about arguing with you. You’re going to keep on replying. I can always count on you for a response.
“you admit to trolling” Another perfect example of you putting words in my mouth. I’m not trolling. I’m guessing anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. Hahaha!! Good one. Far East Movement are a 4 man Psy. They have a similar image and a similar style of music. I wouldn’t be surprised if some people mistake a member of Far East Movement for Psy. You defended ALL mainstream acts in general, that includes Far East Movement, Lil Wayne and everyone else in the mainstream. The keyword here is “ALL”. So explain how that’s setting up a straw man? Might want to reread that Rhetoric and Logic textbook.
You aren’t fooling anyone. You barely listen to underground hip hop. Claiming you do, does not make you sound like an expert on music. It’s obvious you only listen to mainstream hip hop. That’s why you’re defending it so passionately. The fact that keep bragging about how much underground hip hop you listen shows how insecure you are about the mainstream music you listen to. It’s almost like you feel ashamed of the music you like and feel that people will look down on you for it. You feel that you have to mention that you listen to underground hip hop for people to take you seriously. Now that’s what I call insecurity. Sounds to me like you’re trying to prove yourself.
Like I said, I came to this post out of boredom and to gather information for a paper which will go in my writing portfolio. Just so you know, I’m actually having this same argument on another forum. The guy there is saying the same things you are. In fact, maybe you two might be the same guy. Are you Chekov14? Mainstream hip hop = a scribble scrabble on a piece of paper. Underground hip hop = a renaissance painting. If you can’t see the the superiority of underground hip hop over it’s mainstream counterpart, then I can’t do anything but laugh. “I couldn’t care less if you think they don’t work hard or it’s inferior.” Again, if you didn’t care then why do you keep replying? C’mon. Just admit that you do care and that my opinion bothers you.
The “coming out of the cave” analogy revolved around why many people listen to mainstream music. That analogy must have really hit a nerve because you were mad as hell in your other comment. Defending mainstream hip hop is like saying canned steak is just as good as a $30 steak at a steakhouse. It’s absurd.
“Every single one of your comments in this thread goes along the lines of trying to justify your own niche likes as better than everything others listen to so you can feel better about yourself.” The same could be said about you. Except in your case, you claim your own popular likes are just as good as the underground stuff to feel better about yourself. If I’m a hipster then makes you are a blind Psy fanboy.
“Anyway, that’s all I have to say on this” Really? You will reply to this comment in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1!!!!! You will be replying to my comment tomorrow with a lot more to say on this matter. You can’t resist the urge to reply, can you? Submit to that urge and reply, you shall!!! I’ll be looking forward to your response.
“Psy did not fight just as hard as any underground rapper. He got lucky. The label created his image, sound, and did a very good job marketing him. He puts far less effort into his music than any underground act.”
Interesting point but can you prove it?
I know Psy writes, composes his own songs. I also know he’s already popular in Korea way before Gangnam Style. Other than that, I know nothing (especially about music) so it’d be really nice (and possibly enlightening) if you could give some /proof/ that Psy or any mainstream act, for that matter, “puts far less effort into his music than any underground act”.
Psy co-writes his songs. He has people help him with his lyrics. Most underground acts write 100% of their verses and receive no assistance with their lyrics. In addition to that, underground hip hop songs contain twice as many words as mainstream hip hop songs. Mainstream hip hop songs have very repetitive lyrics and the songs are mostly the chorus being repeated several times with a few short verses. Underground hip hop focuses on verses rather than choruses. Underground artists also put much more thought into their lyrics. There is real substance to their lyrics. They don’t write songs about bumping hoes, partying and bragging about how much money they have. They write songs on a variety of subjects, like the Native American genocide, Politicians abusing their power, Questioning God’s existence, etc. The rhyme schemes and song structures of underground hip hop songs are much more complex.
Far East Movement (mainstream)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avx35Mjkkhw
La Coka Nostra (underground)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53GrVNFArHQ
You can clearly tell the second song required much more effort than the first song. Thanks for getting involved in this debate. In the rare and unlikely event that IATFB doesn’t reply, I can continue this discussion with you. I still need more material for my paper.
You have a very obscure definition of talent and I’d actually like you to elaborate on that a bit.
I’m finding it hard to follow your arguments and pov when you keep digging this /extreme/ chasm between the ‘talent’ of artists based solely on your perception of how hard they apparently try (or don’t).
I vehemently disagree with you when you say mainstream artist are untalented, especially when you apply that way of thinking to all genres across the board in the music industry. It’s just way too narrow-minded to think like that about music.
Okay, I’ll elaborate on my definition of talent. There are two types of talent, acquired talent and natural talent. Acquired talent is something you learn by practicing and working hard. Natural talent is a born predisposition to acquire a talent quickly. I’m not saying talent and effort are the same thing. I’m saying that effort is involved in acquiring a talent. If you want to become a talented piano player, you have to practice everyday. In other words you have to put effort into it.
“especially when you apply that way of thinking to all genres across the board in the music industry” All genres are not the same. All pop is mainstream. There is no such thing as underground pop. Hip hop and rock are the only two genres that are divided into mainstream and underground. Jazz, Reggae, Classical, Swing, and all other genres of music are basically all underground as they are very niche genres. This way of thinking can only be applied to two genres, rock and hip hop. Soon it will only be one genre. In the last 10 years, mainstream rock has been slowly fading away. There are only a handful of mainstream rock bands left. Soon all rock will be underground.
‘It’s just way too narrow-minded to think like that about music.” Not this again. Having a different opinion is not a narrow minded way to think about music. We all have different opinions. Nobody is narrow minded, ignorant, or delusional. I mentioned this in a previous comment.
Wait, at some point you said, “no mainstream artist has talent.”
By your definition of talent, which I can get with, you maintain that:
mainstream = no (acquired/natural) talent
So, you’re telling me all mainstream artists are untalented? Untalented in what?
There is more to artists than just songwriting, just like songwriting isn’t all an artist has to offer.
btw, if we start diving into all the subgenres of ‘pop’ (not popular, top 40′s charts-pop), I can assure you that there is certainly and ‘underground’ side to it.
On one hand there is Chopin, one of the greatest piano players of all time. He is talented. On the other hand there is Bob. A guy who had a few weeks worth of piano lessons as a kid and can only play Farajaka on the piano. To call Bob a talented piano player is preposterous. Many mainstream artists are like Bob, they have very limited knowledge regarding music and are limited in what they can do. Unlike Chopin, they have not put considerable effort into developing a talent. For instance, Brad Delson (Linkin Park’s guitarist) can only play simple power chords and does not fully understand how to play the guitar.
“Untalented in what?” It depends on what they do whether it’s rap, sing, play guitar, produce, or write songs.
“There is more to artists than just songwriting, just like songwriting isn’t all an artist has to offer.” I know that. However, the core of hip hop is song writing. Just like the core of rock is guitar playing. If a rapper does not posses strong song writing skills then he or she has no talent. What I am trying to say is that in order to be a talented rapper, you have to be a good songwriter. But what if the rapper isn’t a good song writer but can make really phat beats, knit sweaters, and bake delicious cookies? In that case, he or she is a talented producer, knitter, and baker. However, none of that changes the fact that he or she is an untalented rapper.
That’s interesting. I’ve never heard any underground pop. Could you please provide me with youtube links to some underground pop songs? I’d like to hear what it sounds like.
[OT] This site gets all the loooong comments. Sometimes, articles get only plenty of short ones. Sometimes, there’s only a few but they’re really long. Then you have the articles which get many long comments. How do you guys even start typing all these essays? I normally can’t even think of one short comment after reading the articles.
lol the essays. i thought i’m in seoulbeats, where everyone write an essay for everything.